All Blacks 2022
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life Thing is - most people were pretty happy in late-September 2021.
Turned to shit after that, but was that simply because the other teams were too good for us, or because we were running out of gas?
I'm inclined to think a fair bit of the latter - though Ireland especially were extraordinarily good. We will find out more on this forthcoming tour as long as they send something close to their best team.
I don't think Fozzie's going to throw the baby out with the bathwater in the first test though. We'll see what changes might be enforced for the later tests.
i have very a different memory, i remember talking about even when we won we looked ropey, relying on moments of individual brilliance rather than a champion team playing together
There were periods of play which were outstanding all over the park. The problem was maintaining that for long periods of time. Too often we lost momentum due to mistakes and lapses of concentration - which has been an issue for me since 2017
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
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@KiwiMurph I feel the difference between D Coles and A Aumua is that Coles probably had more time to develop physically and was able to slowly put on size which made that transition to test rugby a lot smoother. Coles also didn’t have the tag of ‘next big star’ hanging over his head so was able to do his thing without too much pressure.
Whether it was intentional or not I feel Aumua put too much size on too early and I feel that has been detrimental to his development because to me he’s lost that speed and explosiveness that made him so deadly coming through the grades.
When you look at footage of when he ran around Bridge for example playing for the Wellington Lions VS his game now, he looks like a completely different player. I feel like he’s only starting to warm into his bigger frame which means he definitely isn’t the finished product.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
He’s potentially a very good player, as is Lomax, as was Patty T. He’s been in the environment since 2019 (edit: apprentice in 2017!) and doesn’t appear to be any better now than he was then. He’s been overtaken by Taukeiaho and isn’t looking like he’ll be first choice at the Canes until Coles says bye. With luck, he’ll suddenly get there, but right now I wouldn’t see him making a WC squad.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
For all Ardie's good points, he's a leader but not a Captain. His Captaincy decisions are stuck at SR level, where sheer force of will and/or fancy moves can work much more often. TAKE THE FUCKING THREE! We don;t do it often enough anyway, Ardie is even less likely to.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
For this to happen though Cane needs to be dropped from captain, will that happen? Probably not.
I think your point is spot on. I really rate Cane and we seem to have more go forward when he's playing, but it must be pretty close in Foster's mind between him and Paps right now, on merit, for the 7 jersey.
Then there's Cane's injury history. No disrespect to Whitelock and Ardie, but not having stability around captaincy on the field can't have helped last year. It's a hard situation for any coach to manage, but that's what we pay them to do
For all Ardie's good points, he's a leader but not a Captain. His Captaincy decisions are stuck at SR level, where sheer force of will and/or fancy moves can work much more often. TAKE THE FUCKING THREE! We don;t do it often enough anyway, Ardie is even less likely to.
Whitelock is the obvious option. He’s our best lock, he’s a great decision maker under pressure and he is one of the older heads in the team.
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@Victor-Meldrew and that came back to alot of the decisions we made, which are impacted by the gameplan, leadership, fitness/fatigue and dealing with pressure, something we used to do so very well.
We know Richies captaincy wasnt without its issues, but for me the learning(s)
that came as he grew into his role were the key, I dont see that as much with Cane, dont get me wrong, he is a good leader, but not sure he can be a great one...I reckon Paps has it in him...if he gets the chancehttps://trainingground.guru/articles/how-the-all-blacks-perform-under-pressure
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
We know Richies captaincy wasnt without its issues, but for me the learning(s) that came as he grew into his role were the key, I dont see that as much with Cane, dont get me wrong, he is a good leader, but not sure he can be a great one.
The injuries haven't helped him develop and grow into the role. Not his fault, feel sorry for him,but that's life. Perhaps we need to start looking at who's the best captain for 2023 and start now? Is that Paps or is that a step too far at this stage?
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@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
"Lightweight" Segner is only 20 years old and weighs 108kg the same weight as Shannon Frizzell... but sure.
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@Asterik6 said in All Blacks 2022:
@number9 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2022:
I was keen on Hodgeman, but Not sure on his ability at scrum time now.
I'd like to see him with two AB locks behind him. Short of that, Goodhue and Romano should be a bit of an upgrade.
If your observations are based on the Brumbies game. When you have lightweights in Darry and Segner on the LH side there was no power to support that side. With AB quality locks and a decent LF this won't be an issue.
"Lightweight" Segner is only 20 years old and weighs 108kg the same weight as Shannon Frizzell... but sure.
Absolutely! Frizzell is 108kg polynesian who has a natural power far exceeding Segner. Same goes for guys like Maa Nonu who was also 108kg and hit Elsibeth harder than any other player alive. Maybe the same weight but he is a lightweight at scrum time. So yeah .. sure.
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Frizell is quite a lot more than 108kgs.
Remember when Fozzie said he could potentially cover lock?
Read this excellent article about how big they want these guys for various positions.....and that's 4 years ago.
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Unfortunately have watched very little rugby this year but how has Jacobsen been going? Liked the look of him.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
At TH, Nepo and Ofa are baked in. Then a question of what wanted from third prop. If around the field versatility Angus T's the man. If scummaging, with Mafileo out it would be between Franks (!) or Newell, who certainly seems one for the future.
On LH much harder. Karl best scrummager, but signed for France. Hodgman superb around field/lineouts but not top level test standard in scrum. De Groot and Bower seem a bit in between. Ross seems good in scrum and pretty useful round field. Norris similar but strengths the other way around.
I'd be inclined to select Nepo at 3, to take some pressure off the starting LH (insert name). Ofa and Hodgman could be very useful off bench.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Tu'ungufasi should be a big step up on last year's props. Hodgman at loose head, Taukei'aho at hooker. That should give us a big improvement over the first 50 minutes of last year's games - we'd lost the matches at that point against Ireland and France.
Even having Barrett available might prove a difference over the geriatric duo used on the last EOYT.
I like to see Newell get game time this year, maybe Norris too.
Opinions on Ross as a loose head? An all-rounder, but not particularly good at anything?
Chiefs scrum this year has been pretty awesome no matter who was starting. Considering that it has been a bit mix and match and the youth of the locks it shows some good performances from some under-rated and often maligned players.
Brumbies pumped them.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Frizell is quite a lot more than 108kgs.
Remember when Fozzie said he could potentially cover lock?
Read this excellent article about how big they want these guys for various positions.....and that's 4 years ago.
Gee they sure got the bit about Fifita wrong didn’t they ? I suppose this was published after he skittled all those Argentines then did very little after that.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2022:
@booboo Referring to Asafo Aumua. I still think he has the goods tbh and would be more than happy to see the AB selectors to keep the faith with him.
Agreed, he was rock solid to start the year for the Canes but then Covid, a minor injury, a suspension and the flu have really prevented him from hitting his straps. Hopefully he can push his A.B case through the playoffs.
The other thing with Aumua is translating his game to test rugby. His speed and the more open nature of Super Rugby really suit him - it's whether he can morph his game to test rugby. There were plenty of sceptics about Dane Coles in his younger days about whether his game would ever translate to the ABs.
Remember when we all thought Hika Elliot was the next big thing, and why the fuck are they persisting with that Coles flake? ...
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@KiwiMurph I feel the difference between D Coles and A Aumua is that Coles probably had more time to develop physically and was able to slowly put on size which made that transition to test rugby a lot smoother. Coles also didn’t have the tag of ‘next big star’ hanging over his head so was able to do his thing without too much pressure.
Whether it was intentional or not I feel Aumua put too much size on too early and I feel that has been detrimental to his development because to me he’s lost that speed and explosiveness that made him so deadly coming through the grades.
When you look at footage of when he ran around Bridge for example playing for the Wellington Lions VS his game now, he looks like a completely different player. I feel like he’s only starting to warm into his bigger frame which means he definitely isn’t the finished product.
Damned with faint praise
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With Moody out, I guess the LH spot will be given to Bower. Does he have the necessary strength and technique to neutralize Tagh Furlong ? I have many doubts about it. Hodgman would be destroyed by the big Irishman at scrum time, so would Norris. So what are the options left ? Karl T ? He can scrummage but against the Oirish, you may expect to make a lot of tackles, so he is clearly not the best at this. De Groot ? I have yet to see him against a first class opposition. Despite his impressive size, I think he punches well under his weight. Due to a lack of mongrel ? Ross ? He did more than holding his own against Tupou but he won't get the same leniency from the ref at scrum time. So who's left ? I could see a starting combo of Ofa T (though he is better THP) and Laulala, with Hodgman (or Bower) and Newell on the bench.
ABs' weight evolution: Super-size only
