GOAT
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@MiketheSnow said in GOAT:
@ACT-Crusader said in GOAT:
A fellow GOAT nominee talking about Wilt
Video guy annoying as fuck
Interviewer looks like he has a mullet because of the backdrop
I gave up watching because the fluffybunny kept interrupting.
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@nostrildamus said in GOAT:
@antipodean said in GOAT:
@TeWaio really? A bloke that looked like this with those levers benched 500lb?
the internet is full of his reputed feats of strength. How true they are, I don't know.
He was able to put the shot 18m+, which is in line strength-wise with being able to bench 500lbs
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@ACT-Crusader said in GOAT:
@voodoo the way I think about Kobe is that if I was coach and I said I need 20 from you in the 4th quarter and we need to win - other than Wilt and MJ, Kobe will probably get 25 and hit the winning basket. From a pretty young age he understood how to exploit the seams and cracks in defences.
Plus the Kobe 9s are still the best basketball shoe I’ve ever played in 😉
Pffft. He was a gunner, a 44% volume shooter. Worked his ass off, and a genuine great. Just not top 5, maybe scrapes into top 10.
Also WTF?
Now this is a shoe
Agreed, for me now Steph has displaced him in top 10.
I go:
- LeBron
- MJ
- Kareem
- Wilt
- Magic
- Bird
- Duncan
- Shaq
- Russell
- Steph
- Kobe
I know 1-2 winds people up, but for me the longevity now + much higher standard of "average" NBA player now vs 80s/90s gives it to LeBron. The game is truly international now.
Ahhhh, bro, you need to give some more credence to winning!
Wilt is far too high, Russell far too low. I'm swapping MJ and LeBron back, but I can live with most of the others. I never saw West or Oscar play, they might command a spot somewhere. I'd have to think hard about Shaq v Hakeem too, both beasts.
Kobe outside the top 10 seems inevitable though.
Wilt is high on my list despite only 2 titles because he was such a freak athlete. 100pt game, 52 rebounds, season averages 50.4ppg / 27.2rpg. The NBA changed so many rules because of him: widening the lane, no inbound passes over the backboard, added goaltending etc.
He had Bo Jackson levels of versatility: NCAA champ in shot put, high jump and triple jump. Became a professional volleyball player after basketball, is in the volleyball HOF. And a legendary ladies man.
Athletic freak for sure, but I can't get past what a loser he was. He has a disgraceful record for someone of his ability.
Russell on the other hand was all about the rings. Demanded excellence, led the way. Delivered on every big stage.
Did you know Russell was 10-0 in career Game 7s? And in those games he averaged 29.3 rebounds, 18.6 points and 3.7 assists? What a beast.
And don't sleep on his athleticism, he was an Olympic level High Jumper, think he cleared 2.06 or something. Clips like this show his athleticism
He could have been a 30ppg scorer I reckon, he just chose to be dominant at the defensive end of the court
For me, the GOAT list should contain the guys that you want to go into battle with - whether it's a 7 game finals series or a single game 7. Winners. That's why its MJ over LeBron, and that's why its Russell over Wilt.
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@antipodean said in GOAT:
@TeWaio really? A bloke that looked like this with those levers benched 500lb?
Wilt Chamberlain was definitely freakishly athletic but there is NO WAY he lifted that. ABSOLUTE bullshit. Guys who lift that are built like the Mountain from GOT or Brian Shaw. The muscle would detract from his BBall ability of which he was sensational.
Much like he didn’t root 20,000 women.
He was full of shit on lots of stuff.
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@nostrildamus said in GOAT:
@antipodean said in GOAT:
@TeWaio really? A bloke that looked like this with those levers benched 500lb?
the internet is full of his reputed feats of strength. How true they are, I don't know.
He was able to put the shot 18m+, which is in line strength-wise with being able to bench 500lbs
Oh yeah Arnie and some basketball stars are online vouching for his strength, it was just the wrestling the mountain lion story that made me hesitate.
Him and Andre the giant in that famous Conan-era photo lifting Arnie like he was a handbag convinced me way back when that he wasn't a weakling. -
@MN5 just because you don’t believe it or he doesn’t fit your description of a power lifter doesn’t mean it never happened.
Plus it was only 10,000. One for each career rebound…
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@taniwharugby said in GOAT:
That nonsense has more validity than the claim Wilt benches >220kg.
Also, powerlifting in suits or with massive arches in the back make a mockery of the concept IMO.
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@canefan I don't think it was that great. He waltzed through a bunch of useless Brits who showed zero ability to defend. They were like cones. Their careers should have ended after that game. Steve Coppell was one of them and one of those English players who was picked without merit. England is still doing this but there has been some improvement.
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@ACT-Crusader said in GOAT:
@MN5 just because you don’t believe it or he doesn’t fit your description of a power lifter doesn’t mean it never happened.
Plus it was only 10,000. One for each career rebound…
NBA hero Wilt Chamberlain claimed he slept with 20,000 women - Daily Star
NBA great Wilt Chamberlain once claimed to have slept with 20,000 women - a statement he addressed during a 1997 appearance on Late Night With Conan O'Brien
I’m calling bullshit on all of it.
For starters the women work out at 1.4 a day I think ( shit, I missed a couple of days, better nail four to compensate ) Where the hell would he find the time to do that, play basketball ( which he was amazing at ) and lift weights like that ?
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@antipodean said in GOAT:
@taniwharugby said in GOAT:
That nonsense has more validity than the claim Wilt benches >220kg.
Also, powerlifting in suits or with massive arches in the back make a mockery of the concept IMO.
Indeed.
Check out the complete and utter lack of ROM in that vid.
Then if you can be bothered sitting through it check out a more legit effort.
I’ll freely admit that I suspect Wilt Chamberlain was a better basketballer than Brian Shaw though.
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I don't get the love for Tom Brady. Yes he is the winningest NFL player ever, but that is a combination of his longevity and who he played for.
During his career his stats aren't even close to GOAT territory.
Tom Brady
MVPs = 3.
Passer rating = 97.3Peyton Manning:
MVPs = 5
Passer rating = 96.5 (for worse teams)Aaron Rodgers:
MVPs = 4
Passer rating = 104.2Now argue all you like that Tom Brady is better than Aaron Rodgers, but you have deal with the fact that he has less MVPs and a lower rating, which he should not if he is clearly better. Maybe you are right about some intangibles, but there is no way he is so far out in front that he gets to be one of the greatest sportsmen ever.
Guys in the GOAT conversation should have stats like Gretsky or Bradman -- so far out in front that it isn't even close.
Lance Armstrong, even disregarding his cheating, is even less deserving. His palmares is simply seven Tours de France and almost nothing else. He doesn't come within a mile of Eddy Merckx who is far and away the greatest cyclist ever. Merckx at his peak won every second race he rode.
To Americans, for whom cycling means watching the Tour once a year and have no sense of cycling history, Armstrong looks brilliant. To cycling fans there is rather a lot more to the sport.
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@Chester-Draws said in GOAT:
I don't get the love for Tom Brady. Yes he is the winningest NFL player ever, but that is a combination of his longevity and who he played for.
During his career his stats aren't even close to GOAT territory.
Tom Brady
MVPs = 3.
Passer rating = 97.3Peyton Manning:
MVPs = 5
Passer rating = 96.5 (for worse teams)Aaron Rodgers:
MVPs = 4
Passer rating = 104.2Now argue all you like that Tom Brady is better than Aaron Rodgers, but you have deal with the fact that he has less MVPs and a lower rating, which he should not if he is clearly better. Maybe you are right about some intangibles, but there is no way he is so far out in front that he gets to be one of the greatest sportsmen ever.
Guys in the GOAT conversation should have stats like Gretsky or Bradman -- so far out in front that it isn't even close.
Lance Armstrong, even disregarding his cheating, is even less deserving. His palmares is simply seven Tours de France and almost nothing else. He doesn't come within a mile of Eddy Merckx who is far and away the greatest cyclist ever. Merckx at his peak won every second race he rode.
To Americans, for whom cycling means watching the Tour once a year and have no sense of cycling history, Armstrong looks brilliant. To cycling fans there is rather a lot more to the sport.
Indians still disagree and point out his ODI and T20 record is shit.
In boxing it’s hard to go past Muhammad Ali as cliche as it is.
He fought EVERYONE, didn’t duck a challenge, freaky skills and changed stylistically as he got older although he did go on too long and tarnish the record a bit.
There’s also a few fighters I prefer personally but you can’t fault what he did for the sport.
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@antipodean said in GOAT:
@taniwharugby said in GOAT:
That nonsense has more validity than the claim Wilt benches >220kg.
Also, powerlifting in suits or with massive arches in the back make a mockery of the concept IMO.
Indeed.
Check out the complete and utter lack of ROM in that vid.
Then if you can be bothered sitting through it check out a more legit effort.
I’ll freely admit that I suspect Wilt Chamberlain was a better basketballer than Brian Shaw though.
I think people who genuinely believe Wilt benched 500lbs have no idea just how much weight that is. The simple fact is there's no actual evidence of these feats. None. What are the odds this fluffybunny was great at everything and the only thing anyone decided to actually capture was some basketball games?
His reputed athletic records don't need to be judged contemporaneously - we can look at them against the best ever.
440 yards (400m) - less than 10% off the best time ever for U18
880 yards (800m) - within 13% of the best time ever for U18
Shotput is within 22% of Jacko Gill's record for a 16lb shot. And he looks like this:
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That's the image of a shot-putter who benches only 10% more... We can put this nonsense to bed.
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Tom Brady re-wrote what success looks like in the NFL
He has more rings than any team. Even lost a couple of SBs. Prior to Brady guys like Rodgers and Peyton would be called among the best ever. TB destroys their career accomplishments.
He was the reason the Patriots won. He then went and won immediately at another team.
I fucking hate Tom Brady but he's the greatest. If you have 2 mins to score a TD to win a superbowl I don't want any other player under centre. He'll get it, because he always gets it. And he'll get it throwing to scrubs.
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Rings, rings, rings. You can't judge individuals on team performances.
Why does the number of rings supersede the number of MVPs? One is team performance, (multiplied by longevity) and the other is individual brilliance.
By that logic Tiger Woods should not be in the running. He doesn't have the most majors -- end of story.
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@Chester-Draws in this case I believe you can.
But it's all subjective so by all means, take Rodgers
I'll take Brady. And we'll win.
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@Chester-Draws said in GOAT:
Rings, rings, rings. You can't judge individuals on team performances.
Why does the number of rings supersede the number of MVPs? One is team performance, (multiplied by longevity) and the other is individual brilliance.
By that logic Tiger Woods should not be in the running. He doesn't have the most majors -- end of story.
By that standard, then we can't include team members as the GOAT?
Definitely don't agree with that.
The best players are those that step up when the most is in the line. This is why I don't fall into line with the Sergio Parisse praise.
