Wallabies vs Springboks I
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@frank said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
Keo's hot take (yesterday)
Rugby Championship stars are aligned for Siya’s Springboks
Back the Boks against the Wallabies – not because of patriotism but because they are the best team in the world. The expectation must be that Siya’s super Springboks will win – and win well, writes Mark Keohane.Kolisi’s world champion Springboks have mirrored John Smit’s 2007 world champion Springboks, but the expectation has to be that Sunday won’t mirror the fortunes of Smit’s team in 2009.
The expectation must be that Siya’s super Springboks will win – and win well.
Smit’s team had tamed the Lions with a series win in 2009 and they had beaten the All Blacks twice in succession in South Africa. They needed to beat one of the Wallabies or All Blacks in the away Tri Nations matches to win the title and everything pointed to a win against an Australian team that had lost four Tri Nations matches in succession.
Smit’s Boks did it the hard way in getting clobbered 21-6 against Australia in Brisbane and then beating the All Blacks in Hamilton 32-29 for a third successive win against the men in black in 2009.
The All Blacks greatest ever player Richie McCaw played in all three of those losing Tests. To give context to 2009 is to know McCaw’s Test record: he lost just 15 times in 148 Tests in 15 years of international rugby.
McCaw, in media interviews and his autobiography, described Smit’s 2009 Springboks as the greatest team he faced in those 148 Tests.
Which makes the 2009 Brisbane horror result stand out even more. Nothing in the build-up suggested the Wallabies had a chance and when one compares the two match-day line-ups very few of those Wallabies would have been preferred ahead of those starting for the Springboks.
Fast forward to 2021 and the Wallabies have come off three successive defeats against the All Blacks, including a record 57-22 walloping at Eden Park in Auckland. Kolisi’s Boks, by contrast, have won five of their six Tests in 2021, including a come from behind 2-1 series triumph against the British & Irish Lions in Cape Town and two successive emphatic wins against the Pumas in the Rugby Championship.
I was bullish that the Boks would beat the Lions and much of my public bravado was based on the quality of the 2019 World Cup-winning squad and the manner in which they had beaten Japan in the quarter-finals, Wales in the semi-finals and dismantled England 32-12 in the final.
I made the call at a time when I factored in that two matches were being played at altitude, that the grounds would be filled with South African supporters and that the Boks would have enjoyed a series build-up against Georgia.
When Covid forced all the Test matches to be played in Cape Town Stadium, without any supporters present, the odds certainly shifted towards a Lions team whose players had enjoyed six warm-up matches before the first Test and whose players had played in two successive Six Nations tournaments while the Boks were in Covid-enforced international Test isolation.
Yet despite everything favouring the Lions, I was consistent in maintaining the view that the Boks would win the series because, as players and coaches, they were too good to lose. It wouldn’t be easy but winning the biggest matches should never be easy.
Kolisi and his Boks got the job done and Morne Steyn’s late penalty added romance to the rugged nature of the series. Steyn had kicked the series winning penalty in 2009 and in his first Test appearance in five years, would torture the Lions with his boot in 2021.
I had confidence in the Boks against the Lions, just as I have confidence that they will win against Australia in the next two weekends and set up a grand finale against the All Blacks for the final two weekends of the Rugby Championship.
Those two Tests against the All Blacks will also be the 100th and 101st time world rugby’s greatest rivals meet and the centurion Test comes 100 years after the two teams first played each other in 1921.
If you read the stars, then they are aligned for the Springboks.
At least, that’s my reading of it.
But I can’t say the same thing for so many Springboks supporters who seem to struggle with the concept of the Springboks being the favourites and being expected to win against inferior opposition.
Make no mistake, Australia, with three wins from 12 Tests in the past 18 months, are inferior opposition.
The Boks will respect the occasion of a Test match, but these Wallabies have done very little on the field to demand respect from observers of their performances. They have been terrible.
Many overseas commentators on South African supporters have over the years written of an inferiority complex because of sporting isolation and how they put the likes of New Zealand and Australia on a pedestal.
But it’s been 29 years since both those teams humiliated the Springboks on their return to international rugby.
In those 29 years the Boks have won three World Cups, two Lions series, won in New Zealand against the All Blacks a few times and scored some of the best wins against England at Twickenham and against England in South Africa. They’ve also had the edge over the Wallabies, albeit just.
The Wallabies teams of 1992 and 2000 were world champions and they commanded respect. Not so this current lot.
I’d like to see the Springbok supporters putting their Boks on the pedestal because 29 years after their international return there is no excuse for an inferiority complex hangover among Bok supporters.
When No 1 plays No 7, the expectation has to be that No 1 wins.
At least they lost well
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@blackeyeagain said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
Did Recce Hodge just become George Bridge?
Hodge is a poor man's Bridge.
Wow. Ouch. It doesn’t get lower than that !
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@mn5 said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@frank said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
Keo's hot take (yesterday)
Rugby Championship stars are aligned for Siya’s Springboks
Back the Boks against the Wallabies – not because of patriotism but because they are the best team in the world. The expectation must be that Siya’s super Springboks will win – and win well, writes Mark Keohane.Kolisi’s world champion Springboks have mirrored John Smit’s 2007 world champion Springboks, but the expectation has to be that Sunday won’t mirror the fortunes of Smit’s team in 2009.
The expectation must be that Siya’s super Springboks will win – and win well.
Smit’s team had tamed the Lions with a series win in 2009 and they had beaten the All Blacks twice in succession in South Africa. They needed to beat one of the Wallabies or All Blacks in the away Tri Nations matches to win the title and everything pointed to a win against an Australian team that had lost four Tri Nations matches in succession.
Smit’s Boks did it the hard way in getting clobbered 21-6 against Australia in Brisbane and then beating the All Blacks in Hamilton 32-29 for a third successive win against the men in black in 2009.
The All Blacks greatest ever player Richie McCaw played in all three of those losing Tests. To give context to 2009 is to know McCaw’s Test record: he lost just 15 times in 148 Tests in 15 years of international rugby.
McCaw, in media interviews and his autobiography, described Smit’s 2009 Springboks as the greatest team he faced in those 148 Tests.
Which makes the 2009 Brisbane horror result stand out even more. Nothing in the build-up suggested the Wallabies had a chance and when one compares the two match-day line-ups very few of those Wallabies would have been preferred ahead of those starting for the Springboks.
Fast forward to 2021 and the Wallabies have come off three successive defeats against the All Blacks, including a record 57-22 walloping at Eden Park in Auckland. Kolisi’s Boks, by contrast, have won five of their six Tests in 2021, including a come from behind 2-1 series triumph against the British & Irish Lions in Cape Town and two successive emphatic wins against the Pumas in the Rugby Championship.
I was bullish that the Boks would beat the Lions and much of my public bravado was based on the quality of the 2019 World Cup-winning squad and the manner in which they had beaten Japan in the quarter-finals, Wales in the semi-finals and dismantled England 32-12 in the final.
I made the call at a time when I factored in that two matches were being played at altitude, that the grounds would be filled with South African supporters and that the Boks would have enjoyed a series build-up against Georgia.
When Covid forced all the Test matches to be played in Cape Town Stadium, without any supporters present, the odds certainly shifted towards a Lions team whose players had enjoyed six warm-up matches before the first Test and whose players had played in two successive Six Nations tournaments while the Boks were in Covid-enforced international Test isolation.
Yet despite everything favouring the Lions, I was consistent in maintaining the view that the Boks would win the series because, as players and coaches, they were too good to lose. It wouldn’t be easy but winning the biggest matches should never be easy.
Kolisi and his Boks got the job done and Morne Steyn’s late penalty added romance to the rugged nature of the series. Steyn had kicked the series winning penalty in 2009 and in his first Test appearance in five years, would torture the Lions with his boot in 2021.
I had confidence in the Boks against the Lions, just as I have confidence that they will win against Australia in the next two weekends and set up a grand finale against the All Blacks for the final two weekends of the Rugby Championship.
Those two Tests against the All Blacks will also be the 100th and 101st time world rugby’s greatest rivals meet and the centurion Test comes 100 years after the two teams first played each other in 1921.
If you read the stars, then they are aligned for the Springboks.
At least, that’s my reading of it.
But I can’t say the same thing for so many Springboks supporters who seem to struggle with the concept of the Springboks being the favourites and being expected to win against inferior opposition.
Make no mistake, Australia, with three wins from 12 Tests in the past 18 months, are inferior opposition.
The Boks will respect the occasion of a Test match, but these Wallabies have done very little on the field to demand respect from observers of their performances. They have been terrible.
Many overseas commentators on South African supporters have over the years written of an inferiority complex because of sporting isolation and how they put the likes of New Zealand and Australia on a pedestal.
But it’s been 29 years since both those teams humiliated the Springboks on their return to international rugby.
In those 29 years the Boks have won three World Cups, two Lions series, won in New Zealand against the All Blacks a few times and scored some of the best wins against England at Twickenham and against England in South Africa. They’ve also had the edge over the Wallabies, albeit just.
The Wallabies teams of 1992 and 2000 were world champions and they commanded respect. Not so this current lot.
I’d like to see the Springbok supporters putting their Boks on the pedestal because 29 years after their international return there is no excuse for an inferiority complex hangover among Bok supporters.
When No 1 plays No 7, the expectation has to be that No 1 wins.
At least they lost well
Keo quite sane in defeat, no ranting against refs like Lions 1. I’m shocked!
There can be no complaints about the match officiating because it is not the reason the Boks lost.
The Boks lost because they missed 10 points on offer and they couldn’t control their own set piece with the last action of the match.
Australia won because they were courageous and tough and didn’t wimp out of the contest and they won because Cooper didn’t miss a kick in eight attempts.
There are so many lessons in this Bok defeat for South Africa, but the primary one is that if the Boks mentally are five percent off their game, it is enough to lose to a team ranked seventh in the world but one that played with more mongrel than the easy beats of a 7th place ranking.
The toast on Sunday is for the Wallabies. Good on you mate..
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@machpants said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@mn5 said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@frank said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
Keo's hot take (yesterday)
Rugby Championship stars are aligned for Siya’s Springboks
Back the Boks against the Wallabies – not because of patriotism but because they are the best team in the world. The expectation must be that Siya’s super Springboks will win – and win well, writes Mark Keohane.Kolisi’s world champion Springboks have mirrored John Smit’s 2007 world champion Springboks, but the expectation has to be that Sunday won’t mirror the fortunes of Smit’s team in 2009.
The expectation must be that Siya’s super Springboks will win – and win well.
Smit’s team had tamed the Lions with a series win in 2009 and they had beaten the All Blacks twice in succession in South Africa. They needed to beat one of the Wallabies or All Blacks in the away Tri Nations matches to win the title and everything pointed to a win against an Australian team that had lost four Tri Nations matches in succession.
Smit’s Boks did it the hard way in getting clobbered 21-6 against Australia in Brisbane and then beating the All Blacks in Hamilton 32-29 for a third successive win against the men in black in 2009.
The All Blacks greatest ever player Richie McCaw played in all three of those losing Tests. To give context to 2009 is to know McCaw’s Test record: he lost just 15 times in 148 Tests in 15 years of international rugby.
McCaw, in media interviews and his autobiography, described Smit’s 2009 Springboks as the greatest team he faced in those 148 Tests.
Which makes the 2009 Brisbane horror result stand out even more. Nothing in the build-up suggested the Wallabies had a chance and when one compares the two match-day line-ups very few of those Wallabies would have been preferred ahead of those starting for the Springboks.
Fast forward to 2021 and the Wallabies have come off three successive defeats against the All Blacks, including a record 57-22 walloping at Eden Park in Auckland. Kolisi’s Boks, by contrast, have won five of their six Tests in 2021, including a come from behind 2-1 series triumph against the British & Irish Lions in Cape Town and two successive emphatic wins against the Pumas in the Rugby Championship.
I was bullish that the Boks would beat the Lions and much of my public bravado was based on the quality of the 2019 World Cup-winning squad and the manner in which they had beaten Japan in the quarter-finals, Wales in the semi-finals and dismantled England 32-12 in the final.
I made the call at a time when I factored in that two matches were being played at altitude, that the grounds would be filled with South African supporters and that the Boks would have enjoyed a series build-up against Georgia.
When Covid forced all the Test matches to be played in Cape Town Stadium, without any supporters present, the odds certainly shifted towards a Lions team whose players had enjoyed six warm-up matches before the first Test and whose players had played in two successive Six Nations tournaments while the Boks were in Covid-enforced international Test isolation.
Yet despite everything favouring the Lions, I was consistent in maintaining the view that the Boks would win the series because, as players and coaches, they were too good to lose. It wouldn’t be easy but winning the biggest matches should never be easy.
Kolisi and his Boks got the job done and Morne Steyn’s late penalty added romance to the rugged nature of the series. Steyn had kicked the series winning penalty in 2009 and in his first Test appearance in five years, would torture the Lions with his boot in 2021.
I had confidence in the Boks against the Lions, just as I have confidence that they will win against Australia in the next two weekends and set up a grand finale against the All Blacks for the final two weekends of the Rugby Championship.
Those two Tests against the All Blacks will also be the 100th and 101st time world rugby’s greatest rivals meet and the centurion Test comes 100 years after the two teams first played each other in 1921.
If you read the stars, then they are aligned for the Springboks.
At least, that’s my reading of it.
But I can’t say the same thing for so many Springboks supporters who seem to struggle with the concept of the Springboks being the favourites and being expected to win against inferior opposition.
Make no mistake, Australia, with three wins from 12 Tests in the past 18 months, are inferior opposition.
The Boks will respect the occasion of a Test match, but these Wallabies have done very little on the field to demand respect from observers of their performances. They have been terrible.
Many overseas commentators on South African supporters have over the years written of an inferiority complex because of sporting isolation and how they put the likes of New Zealand and Australia on a pedestal.
But it’s been 29 years since both those teams humiliated the Springboks on their return to international rugby.
In those 29 years the Boks have won three World Cups, two Lions series, won in New Zealand against the All Blacks a few times and scored some of the best wins against England at Twickenham and against England in South Africa. They’ve also had the edge over the Wallabies, albeit just.
The Wallabies teams of 1992 and 2000 were world champions and they commanded respect. Not so this current lot.
I’d like to see the Springbok supporters putting their Boks on the pedestal because 29 years after their international return there is no excuse for an inferiority complex hangover among Bok supporters.
When No 1 plays No 7, the expectation has to be that No 1 wins.
At least they lost well
Keo quite sane in defeat, no ranting against refs like Lions 1. I’m shocked!
There can be no complaints about the match officiating because it is not the reason the Boks lost.
The Boks lost because they missed 10 points on offer and they couldn’t control their own set piece with the last action of the match.
Australia won because they were courageous and tough and didn’t wimp out of the contest and they won because Cooper didn’t miss a kick in eight attempts.
There are so many lessons in this Bok defeat for South Africa, but the primary one is that if the Boks mentally are five percent off their game, it is enough to lose to a team ranked seventh in the world but one that played with more mongrel than the easy beats of a 7th place ranking.
The toast on Sunday is for the Wallabies. Good on you mate..
It’s probably a good thing I was sitting down when I read that
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@mn5 said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
But it’s been 29 years since both those teams humiliated the Springboks on their return to international rugby.
so 57-17 or 57-0 wasnt humiliating?
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@taniwharugby said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@mn5 said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
But it’s been 29 years since both those teams humiliated the Springboks on their return to international rugby.
so 57-17 or 57-0 wasnt humiliating?
BOTH those teams, Ozzie didn’t do it’s part
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...i actually really enjoyed that game
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@kiwiwomble said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
...i actually really enjoyed that game
Same, was a good Test match and a contrast of styles.
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long game made enjoyable by being close the whole time.
The Boks are funny aye? They play a negative "you have the ball" style, but strangely they aren't actually ruthlessly efficient, so the door is always there for a team who can get a few points. They are good on the ground, and that maul is pretty sexy, but that's it. For all the talk of their physical pack, they don't exactly roll over you with the ball, the wallabies sat them down hard all night.
Quade playing a calm hand, Kerevi being a constant threat, and Valetini playing his best test kept Aus in this. It was a bloody good win.
I actually really like the draw this year, where the same teams get to play each other a week later, i reckon it adds heaps to the comp. Next week will be very interesting, both sides know exactly what they need to do better.
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@mariner4life it's really weird - like Aus is the SA kryptonite. For such a physical team, they just seem to struggle with the Australian style in Australia.
Big win for World Rugby though. SA suddenly don't look the behemoth they were over the last few years not playing
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Congrats to the Wallabies, a great effort and puts some life into TRC, next weekend should be a great game also.
Out of curiosity does anyone keep the stats for the number of injury stoppages per team per game and the amount of time wasted doing so? Or perhaps the number of scrum resets per game. It would be interesting to see if there were any noticeable trends by sides employing these tactics.
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@nzzp said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@mariner4life it's really weird - like Aus is the SA kryptonite. For such a physical team, they just seem to struggle with the Australian style in Australia.
Big win for World Rugby though. SA suddenly don't look the behemoth they were over the last few years not playing
The India of world Rugby. Reasonable at home but get a nosebleed when too far from home
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@nzzp said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@hooroo said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
The India of world Rugby. Reasonable at home but get a nosebleed when too far from home
England and Australia beg to differ.
also: thread derailment commencing
Even when writing it i was disagreeing with myself
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@hooroo said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@nzzp said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
@hooroo said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
The India of world Rugby. Reasonable at home but get a nosebleed when too far from home
England and Australia beg to differ.
also: thread derailment commencing
Even when writing it i was disagreeing with myself
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@mariner4life said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
For all the talk of their physical pack, they don't exactly roll over you with the ball, the wallabies sat them down hard all night.
Wallabies pack at present is much more physical than historically. And we looked fitter than the Boks to boot.
Will have to watch the game again, but Rodda's name wasn't mentioned much, so assume he was in there doing the dirty work.
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If you're going to kick away almost all your possession, your chase and ability to compete and regather needs to be much better. As does your set piece. South Africa also suffered from some truly bizarre brain farts by players.
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@antipodean said in Wallabies vs Springboks I:
If you're going to kick away almost all your possession, your chase and ability to compete and regather needs to be much better. As does your set piece. South Africa also suffered from some truly bizarre brain farts by players.
Offloads under pressure over the sideline were rubbish.
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Very happy with the win. A funny sort of a game, a real clash of styles.
I think the Boks game plan doesn't fit the amount of talent they have, especially in the backs. Guys like Am, Mapimpi, Le Roux, are purely there as kick chasers and it's such a waste. I found them very tough to watch, especially when they started launching kicks within 30m of our line.
We hung in well, though we were our own worst enemy at times. Folau Faingaa's YC was among the stupidest I've seen. Swinton was lucky not to see yellow as well.
Happy for Quade, happy for Rennie. It was a win we really needed to keep the momentum going from the France series. Now 2nd in the RC is a real possibility, which would be nice.
