Klitschko, Fury, Parker, Takam & Joshua

raznomore

The things i saw that worry 
Bergman was gassed and Parker was unloading using no footwork, leaning all over Bergman and using some sketchy punch selection leaving himself open. A LOT. 
What I loved was the head to body. It was brutal. 
Plenty of guys can take a punch like Bergman valiantly did but Parker needs guys that hit back. 
The has been some awesome stuff ans his handspeed again is probably un matched but hes open for the over hand on either side. There not much head movement and his feet are set in concrete. All stuff I was able to forgive given his seemingly slow rise to the top. But now they want to talk belts and top 10 fighters. 
Hes just not ready. I think if he continues on his way slowly building we'll have a champion on our hands. If he fights bigger names this year im 70% sure he'll lose. 
Side note. The scariest fighter out there for me is Ortiz. 36 years old, nasty big hitter with the cuban boxing pedigree. I think he'll be the fighter to beat over the next 2 years 
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kiwiinmelb

I worry for Parkers reputation with Lonergan mouthing off , they are opposite personalities 
 
His latest is Anthony Joshua is running scared of Parker ,
 
I understand he is trying to boost his profile But just find him a bit cringeworthy ,
 
for those that dont know him , he comes across as a dick

wfballLegends

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="554047" data-time="1453631243">
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Just to prove everyone has an opinion, here's Peter Fury's top 10 heavyweights.
 
1. Tyson Fury 2. Wladimir Klitschko 3. Deontay Wilder 4. Luis Ortiz 5. Charles Martin 6. Alexander Povetkin 7. Joseph Parker 8. Kubrat Pulev 9. Hughie Fury 10. Andy Ruiz Jr
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/76205259/tyson-furys-trainer-rates-joseph-parker-as-seventhbest-heavyweight-in-world'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/76205259/tyson-furys-trainer-rates-joseph-parker-as-seventhbest-heavyweight-in-world</a>
 
Interesting comments about Joshua. Some nepotism there with son Hughie listed.
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</blockquote>
 
You would of got excited as a kiwi boxer supporter until you saw Charles Martin, Hughie Fury and Andy Ruiz Jr - that is a massive piss take by no little stretch aimed at riling up Joshua..

wfballLegends

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Razbra" data-cid="554049" data-time="1453635540">
<div>
The things i saw that worry 
Bergman was gassed and Parker was unloading using no footwork, leaning all over Bergman and using some sketchy punch selection leaving himself open. A LOT. 
What I loved was the head to body. It was brutal. 
Plenty of guys can take a punch like Bergman valiantly did but Parker needs guys that hit back. 
The has been some awesome stuff ans his handspeed again is probably un matched but hes open for the over hand on either side. There not much head movement and his feet are set in concrete. All stuff I was able to forgive given his seemingly slow rise to the top. But now they want to talk belts and top 10 fighters. 
Hes just not ready. I think if he continues on his way slowly building we'll have a champion on our hands. If he fights bigger names this year im 70% sure he'll lose. 
Side note. The scariest fighter out there for me is Ortiz. 36 years old, nasty big hitter with the cuban boxing pedigree. I think he'll be the fighter to beat over the next 2 years 
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</blockquote>
 
I completely agree with you, Ortiz for me is a real deal heavyweight, hopefully we can get 3 or 4 top years out of him.
 
Parkers feet really worry me also, as soon as he fights any of the top 10 quality guys they are going to pick him apart. He needs a seriously good coaching set up to get that rubbish out of him.

taniwharugby

So if you were Parkers manager how would you be doing things, what would you be saying in promoting him and his fights? 
im not a big boxing fan but hasn't the hyperbole and BS been part of it since, well, pretty much ever?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="554071" data-time="1453672208">
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So if you were Parkers manager how would you be doing things, what would you be saying in promoting him and his fights? 
im not a big boxing fan but hasn't the hyperbole and BS been part of it since, well, pretty much ever?
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Thats what I thought too, you'd have to talk your man up to make him worth the tv rights to be worth fighting. Barry did much the same with Tua and I remember when he fought Lewis a few boxing commentators discussing how hard he had worked to get Tua to the title fight .

kiwiinmelb

I think the argument with duco is , are they trying to make money from Joseph too early ? 
Horse before the cart situation .? 
If he needs to fight hacks as part of his development that's fine , but is it worth paying the big bucks that they are asking ? 
Are they going to burn fans in the process ?

MN5

You blokes know your modern boxing, some great reading on this thread. I'm in two minds over Klitchko throwing the fight against Fury though, would his ( or anyone else's ) ego allow it ? I'm certain Liston threw his fight with Ali many years ago though..... 
I find it amusing that Tyson Fury think that he and his cousin are gonna be the next Klitchkos though, that's a very bold statement to make.

wfballLegends

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="554072" data-time="1453672655">
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Thats what I thought too, you'd have to talk your man up to make him worth the tv rights to be worth fighting. Barry did much the same with Tua and I remember when he fought Lewis a few boxing commentators discussing how hard he had worked to get Tua to the title fight .
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Hyerbole is totally part of boxing, but dont compare what they are doing with Parker with Tua. If you look at Tua he actually had boxed the best in the division on the way up. He took risks and was exposed on the world scene with HBO night of the young heavyweights, honestly look at who he fought Chris Byrd 33 - 2, Ike Ibeabuchi 16 - 0, Darroll Wilson 17 - 0, John Ruiz 25 - 2, David Izon 18 -1, Oleg Maskaev 10 - 1, Hasim Rachman 29 - 0, Gary Bell 21 - 2, Robert Daniels 39 - 4, Lennox Lewis 37 - 1, Danell Nicholson 39 - 3. Fres Quendo 22 - 0, Michael Moorer 43 - 2
 
All of those guys above were on the most demanding of heavyweight boxing depth charts ever! - while there wasnt a ALi or Tyson era it was probably the most stacked in talent the heavyweight division had seen in a while. And worlds apart from where we are now. Tua earned his title shot against Lewis through his activity in the ring.

wfballLegends

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="554149" data-time="1453691564">
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You blokes know your modern boxing, some great reading on this thread. I'm in two minds over Klitchko throwing the fight against Fury though, would his ( or anyone else's ) ego allow it ? I'm certain Liston threw his fight with Ali many years ago though..... 
I find it amusing that Tyson Fury think that he and his cousin are gonna be the next Klitchkos though, that's a very bold statement to make.
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Im not sure his ego would see this boxing division as much chop anyhow. I reckon money matters in this world, its not about what Klitschko wants either, he has financial backers who will pull his strings and make or break him. They will need money. He aint earning as much as champion anymore. 
And yes Liston took a dive!

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="meetthemonster" data-cid="554180" data-time="1453705807">
Im not sure his ego would see this boxing division as much chop anyhow. I reckon money matters in this world, its not about what Klitschko wants either, he has financial backers who will pull his strings and make or break him. They will need money. He aint earning as much as champion anymore. 
And yes Liston took a dive!</blockquote>
I reckon Jack Johnson took a dive all those years ago too, the black and white photo as Jess Willard is standing over him would appear to show him shielding his eyes from the sun, mind you Jack Dempsey damn near killed Willard when they fought.

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="meetthemonster" data-cid="554031" data-time="1453617908">
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Its shit like this Lonergan says hahahahahaahahahahahaah <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/76188484/joseph-parker-will-end-the-myth-that-is-anthony-joshua-says-dean-lonergan'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/76188484/joseph-parker-will-end-the-myth-that-is-anthony-joshua-says-dean-lonergan</a>
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</blockquote>
 
The problem with this stuff, average kiwis are buying into it , going by the mouthing off on FB , 
 
I personally would like to see the hype train slowed down a little , 
 
They are talking about possible world title shots as early as this year , 
 
What they do from now will be interesting , surely they have to step up the quality of the opponents before they talk world titles ,maybe some opponents that actually throw back would be a start , 
 
I think that is what boxing fans with any knowledge of the sport are feeling

kiwiinmelb

He mentions Haye in that article , 
 
He is one fighter that I would be seriously worried about for Joseph due to the angles he throws from , my gut feeling is Joseph defense is not up to that standard yet and find him way too unpredictable 
 
But there is nothing in a Joseph fight for Haye , no money with a certain amount of risk ,which together spells bad option, so it wont be on their list at his stage of his career , 
 
Maybe Lonergan knows that and he can safely mouth crap like that , knowing its not a realistic option

wfballLegends

We will know when his next opponent for Christchurch is named. They say they have searched the world low and high for this guy. I certainly don't expect a top 10/20 fighter but a Price, Molina or Briggs would be bang on the money with where Parkers development level is and give him some small cred step up. I was thinking Nagy Aguiela will fight Parker at some stage but even he will be a step backwards in Parkers development now.

kiwiinmelb

I dont know all the current heavyweights , only the big names 
 
I guess the drama for Duco ( and I have no idea what they are exactly thinking ) , is finding the fighters that will boost Parkers experience and profile , that they can afford , not present too many risks , and will accept the fight in the first place for their own reasons , 
 
A lot of boxes to tick there ,
 
you just feel something has to change before he goes to another level , to keep fighting in NZ in front of a small pay per view audience against journeymen fighters isnt going to progress him very far , 
 
Maybe on more undercards of bigger overseas fights will be better for Joseph long term , Im sure overseas promoters would love to have him on their cards ,
 
but that comes back to Duco , what hold they have over him and what is best for their interests

wfballLegends

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="554227" data-time="1453749442">
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I dont know all the current heavyweights , only the big names 
 
I guess the drama for Duco ( and I have no idea what they are exactly thinking ) , is finding the fighters that will boost Parkers experience and profile , that they can afford , not present too many risks , and will accept the fight in the first place for their own reasons , 
 
A lot of boxes to tick there ,
 
you just feel something has to change before he goes to another level , to keep fighting in NZ in front of a small pay per view audience against journeymen fighters isnt going to progress him very far , 
 
Maybe on more undercards of bigger overseas fights will be better for Joseph long term , Im sure overseas promoters would love to have him on their cards ,
 
but that comes back to Duco , what hold they have over him and what is best for their interests 
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</blockquote>
 
I have a friend who was a head coach for two state college football teams and got invited to coach at the Baltimore Ravens a few years ago. He lives in New Zealand now but knows the promotion game inside out in the USA and he was adamant when I spoke with him 12 months ago that Duco simply do not have the funds to break Parker into the USA market. He swears as long as Parker is under Duco he will be fighting out of NZ against what ever boxers they can scratch together on their budget.
 
I do not know how accurate the above is, but the more I see who they are lining Parker up against the more I see that funding is more than likely the issue and best thing for Parker would to be cut loose from Duco or for them to surrender the majority stake in him over to a Golden boy promotions etc stable. He will get better fights, better training etc and will become a much more rounded fighter in return.

kiwiinmelb

I was talking to a respected ( ex world champ, part time commentator ) Aussie boxing personalty a while ago and he thought from the outside looking in they were trying to rush him as a main event fighter , 
 
Where his development should be number 1 , and if that works out the rest will fall into place ,
 
Speaking of golden boy , I remember this making press a while back, and never heard anymore , <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/10287974/Oscar-De-La-Hoya-wants-Joseph-Parker-on-board'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/10287974/Oscar-De-La-Hoya-wants-Joseph-Parker-on-board</a>
 
I guess if you are a boxer in NZ , its a bit like being a musician in NZ , if you get more successful , eventually you have to leave to where the market is

raznomore

Of course theyre rushing him. They couldnt give tao shits about his well being really. They want big money payouts on their investment now not in 2-3 years. 
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kiwiinmelb

I would not be surprised if deep down duco suspect the better he gets , the higher the odds they will lose him eventually . 
So there could be a bit of trying to make what they can when they can out of him.

Bovidae

Lonergan has little credibility in boxing and Higgins stays mostly in the background for Duco. It's all very well trying to increase JP's profile in Europe and the US but he needs to start fighting there. None of these top 20 boxers will be interested in fighting in NZ due to the lack of money on the table.
 
I would hope that Kevin Barry has a lot of input into Parker's development and future fights and is not just cashing a cheque every month. Given they both spend most of the year training in Las Vegas it shouldn't be too hard to organise an undercard fight in the US - if they really want that!

The Silver Fern

Klitschko, Fury, Parker, Takam &#38; Joshua

Klitschko, Fury, Parker, Takam & Joshua