Blues v Highlanders
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@tim so we just ignore people we disagree with? generally people on here know at least something about rugby, so if there was disagreement about rules between people that know at least a little then maybe the rules aren't as clear and obvious as we might think
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@kiwiwomble We ignore people who don't know the rules for a start. NZ Rugby could do a better job of communicating the rules with easy to interpret graphics, like the one on passes from World Rugby. Unfortunately the refs are so bad they can't even get that right and confuse the public.
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
i think im onboard with the no TMO idea, if there was no TMO we may all be annoyed we could see on the reply that it was one thing or the other...but eventually we would have to accept the on field refs can only see what they can see
What makes you think we would all just accept refs only seeing what they can see? We didn't accept that in the past, why is it different now?
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@crazy-horse once again must just have been me, i dont remember arguing or bagging the refs as much about line balls, especially when there was a good chance they didn;t see something, like this one would be bloody hard to see on the field
This particular case the ref allowed it didnt he, which was the right call
i also think im just more inclined to let more stuff go, keep things flowing and i think refs on the fields use too just because they cant see everything and i think almost everything looks worse in slow mo
we have a higher expectation of TMO because they sitting at a screen with all the repays etc... but theyre still human and honestly seem to stuff up as many as they get right
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@kiwiwomble don't disagree your sentiments mate, I just think people are not able to accept wrong decisions. That's why we went the route of the TMO. It's not working as well as we would like but I can't see us going back.
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@crazy-horse i dont actually think we'll go back, its just a vent, if theyre getting so many calls wrong but they seem worse because they less excuse to get them wrong...then...
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It reminds me a lot of Marius Jonker's 2019 fuck up that cost the Crusaders a game in Cape Town.
(start 4mins in).
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@tim so we just ignore people we disagree with? generally people on here know at least something about rugby, so if there was disagreement about rules between people that know at least a little then maybe the rules aren't as clear and obvious as we might think
Do you think it was a forward pass? If so, how do you reconcile that with the video from World Rugby showing how it goes over the ground is irrelevant?
We don't ignore people we disagree with, but the objection has to be grounded in reality. The law interpretation is crystal clear - forward passes are about relative movement to the runner.
Goodness knows how the TMO figured out their result
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@crazy-horse said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble don't disagree your sentiments mate, I just think people are not able to accept wrong decisions. That's why we went the route of the TMO. It's not working as well as we would like but I can't see us going back.
Close. People aren't able to accept decisions against their team. Which is how we end up here, and will always end up here.
That "forward pass" ruling is almost the worst thing I have ever seen.
2 games in NZ this weekend. Both threads finish with approximately a hundred posts about the refereeing. And nothing else. Nah, rugby doesn't have a problem. And the TMO has absolutely cleared everything up.
Fuck the TMOs off, stop putting who the ref is in the opening post of the thread. Ignore fans on social media. Fine.coaches looking for scapegoats when they lose.
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Highlanders:
Fuck the TMOs off, stop putting who the ref is in the opening post of the thread. Ignore fans on social media. Fine.coaches looking for scapegoats when they lose.
Honestly, I'd prefer if the ref has to make the call off the big screen. They know what they saw, a quick look at the evidence and it's up to them to change their mind. The TMO should be an assistant there to answer matters of fact only - 'what's the number on the person with the elbow' kind of thing.
Responsibility clear, it's the ref. Clear and obvious is up to the ref, and the ref alone. No one else. Scrap captain's calls, call the ref 'Sir' (or madam these days) and get on with the game.
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I remember O'Keeffe saying in the offseason they put refs in the TMO box cos they thought it would help instead of these people who are only TMOs and not refs (i.e. Ben Skeen who was awful at RWC 2019).
I saw somewhere that this weekend's games were the first games Paul Williams has ever been TMO.
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Highlanders:
2 games in NZ this weekend. Both threads finish with approximately a hundred posts about the refereeing. And nothing else. Nah, rugby doesn't have a problem.
2 games with decisions against the Chiefs and the Blues and approx. 100 + posts on the fern. And you're surprised? Does rugby have a problem or does the fern have a problem? Or do certain teams' fans have a serious problem?
Clear and obvious backwards pass. Clear mistake from officials. Why is there any discussion? Move on.
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@old-samurai-jack said in Blues v Highlanders:
Clear and obvious backwards pass. Clear mistake from officials. Why is there any discussion? Move on.
there were only a few posts about Wayne Barnes refereeing in 2007. Bad reffing is bad reffing.
This one is more frustration about incompetence than anything else. Calls into question the point of having a TMO.
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@crucial said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kruse GPS just isn;t accurate enough but the ball tracking stuff from cricket or tennis might be
You would still have the same problem as now. The ball would still travel forward relative to the ground.
But you could measure speed relative to the player who grows it.
How do they get those graphics in 7s where they show the speed of the player running?
But as has been said this was so so simple to work out based on where the ball was relative to Skies after he passed. (If he had been stopped and driven backwards it would have looked worse.)
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@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
I think he said it can. ??
Player running forward at 5m/s, throws it back over his head at 3m/s, ball travels forwards at 2m/s.
I think you said you were a surveyor? You dig vectors then.
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@booboo said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kiwiwomble said in Blues v Highlanders:
@kirwan i was with you until the last line, thats just not true, as @Crucial said, you can throw it over your head and it wont go forward...and there is every angle between that and lateral/90 degrees, its not a case of a single degree off directly behind you and if will fly forward
@winger is right though, it would be a big change, maybe too big, too much to ask for player to run so much deeper
I think he said it can. ??
Player running forward at 5m/s, throws it back over his head at 3m/s, ball travels forwards at 2m/s.
I think you said you were a surveyor? You dig vectors then.
i said he said it can didn;t i?
i am and i do, i was always taught the rue the ball will always beat the man, as in you pass faster than you can run so if im running at at 5m/s i would expect to be able to throw it faster than that
I think we all just agreed to move on without actually saying
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@old-samurai-jack said in Blues v Highlanders:
@mariner4life said in Blues v Highlanders:
2 games in NZ this weekend. Both threads finish with approximately a hundred posts about the refereeing. And nothing else. Nah, rugby doesn't have a problem.
2 games with decisions against the Chiefs and the Blues and approx. 100 + posts on the fern. And you're surprised? Does rugby have a problem or does the fern have a problem? Or do certain teams' fans have a serious problem?
Clear and obvious backwards pass. Clear mistake from officials. Why is there any discussion? Move on.
Because there's some people disagreeing that is was clear and obvious and a mistake from officials. You're directing your scorn at the wrong posters.
