All Blacks 2021
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
That doesn't mean we should accept mediocrity & continue persisting with our underwhelming 'continuity' option.
I never suggested we should.
I'm just pointing out that to blame and locate the date of the slide in AB performance, and lack of quality players in NZ rugby, entirely on one bloke's presence in the coaching set-up is nonsensical - as is thinking all those problems will be magically fixed by one or two other blokes.
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@victor-meldrew so when a former player of Foster's at the Chiefs gives a scathing assessment of his coaching methods that isn't of any concern to you?
“I haven’t seen any progress”: Devine concerned for All Blacks under Foster
Back-to-back defeats in Europe.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
You don't think that we could possibly see a significant improvement in performance by appointing someone more qualified?
After all, Chiefs won just 49% of their matches between 2004-2011 under Foster's coaching (encompassing 108 games in total).
Then, in a stark contrast, Chiefs went on to win 69% of their matches between 2012-2017, since Foster had departed...
Isn't that sufficient evidence to suggest to you that the majority of our problems lie with the current coaching staff?
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew so when a former player under Foster at the Chiefs gives a scathing assessment of his coaching methods that isn't of any concern to you?
“I haven’t seen any progress”: Devine concerned for All Blacks under Foster
Back-to-back defeats in Europe.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
You don't think that we could possibly see a significant improvement in performance by appointing someone better qualified?
After all, Chiefs won just 50% of their matches between 2004-2011 under Foster's coaching (encompassing 108 games in total).
Then in stark contrast, the Chiefs went on to win 69% of their matches between 2012-2017, after Foster had departed...
Isn't that sufficient evidence to suggest to you that the majority of our problems lie with the current coaching staff?
You're quoting a bloke who was once coached for a few weeks by Foster nearly 20 years ago and using that as proof for your assertion that each and every problem with AB rugby is uniquely down to one man? Seriously?
Do some analysis to identify what the real problems might be rather than cherry-pick and do google searches for "evidence" to support what is, frankly, a rather loopy theory.
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@kiwi_expat A friend of mine is an ex-Chiefs player and says he was f-ing useless. Basically the same stuff Devine is saying.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew so when a former player of Foster's at the Chiefs gives a scathing assessment of his coaching methods that isn't of any concern to you?
“I haven’t seen any progress”: Devine concerned for All Blacks under Foster
Back-to-back defeats in Europe.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
You don't think that we could possibly see a significant improvement in performance by appointing someone more qualified?
After all, Chiefs won just 49% of their matches between 2004-2011 under Foster's coaching (encompassing 108 games in total).
Then, in a stark contrast, Chiefs went on to win 69% of their matches between 2012-2017, since Foster had departed...
Isn't that sufficient evidence to suggest to you that the majority of our problems lie with the current coaching staff?
And it's an opinion that the player is entitled to, and I have read Duane Monkley sayig how good a coach he thinks Foster is, as does Plumtree who has worked with a good number of top coaches reckons he is best coach he has worked with. So good to hear but we can read and believe which ones suit our argument.
Kiwi coach labels Ian Foster as 'best' head coach he's worked with
All Blacks boss Ian Foster has been named as the
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@dan54 '"He was quite a step above both Mitch [Mitchell] and Gatty [Gatland] at that particular time, from my experiences.'
That's hardly a glowing endorsement.
The contracting issue is a fair point, but none of which addresses the fact we're playing yesterday's gameplan.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
Just to clarify @NZbloke how DO you beat the rush defence?
Obviously it's with the use of the
boxcrosschip kick!based on his reply to @chris im going to assume @NZbloke 's solution is to tackle one of our own players, i dont see how it will help myself but i dont have his vision
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@victor-meldrew so when a former player of Foster's at the Chiefs gives a scathing assessment of his coaching methods that isn't of any concern to you?
“I haven’t seen any progress”: Devine concerned for All Blacks under Foster
Back-to-back defeats in Europe.
Who was that player? Devine was a Blues player wasn't he? And now he is associated with click bait journalism. Hardly any concern at all.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 '"He was quite a step above both Mitch [Mitchell] and Gatty [Gatland] at that particular time, from my experiences.'
That's hardly a glowing endorsement.
The contracting issue is a fair point, but none of which addresses the fact we're playing yesterday's gameplan.
Mate read my post, it's Plumtree's opinion only, though I suspect he has more experience than you and I.
I see you have conveniently missed the fact he has said the best he has worked with, and that includes Schmidt and Joseph I believe, but you have cherry picked Gatland and Mitchell to prove a point? Neither who I am a particular fan of, but both have pretty good resumes'
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 '"He was quite a step above both Mitch [Mitchell] and Gatty [Gatland] at that particular time, from my experiences.'
That's hardly a glowing endorsement.
The contracting issue is a fair point, but none of which addresses the fact we're playing yesterday's gameplan.
Mate read my post, it's Plumtree's opinion only, though I suspect he has more experience than you and I.
I see you have conveniently missed the fact he has said the best he has worked with, and that includes Schmidt and Joseph I believe, but you have cherry picked Gatland and Mitchell to prove a point? Neither who I am a particular fan of, but both have pretty good resumes'
My quote of Duane Monkley comes from the stuff article. And neither Mitch nor Gats strike me as tactically gifted.
Plumtree's quote is about culture.
Perhaps read your own post.
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Sometimes I wonder whether Dan54 and Victor Meldrew are some of Ian's relations, as I haven't come across such unwaveringly dedicated and loyal apologists of Fozzie on this forum, nor anywhere else (obviously, with the exception of old mate Shag Hansen..) In many ways, I can't help but admire their persistence and ability to not allow external viewpoints to influence their positions.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
unwaveringly dedicated and loyal apologists
Just because people disagree with lazy Fozzie bashing, doesn't make them apologists.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
unwaveringly dedicated and loyal apologists
Just because people disagree with lazy Fozzie bashing, doesn't make them apologists.
It’s Fun sometimes Fozzie bashing.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
unwaveringly dedicated and loyal apologists
Just because people disagree with lazy Fozzie bashing, doesn't make them apologists.
It’s Fun sometimes Fozzie bashing.
What are you, Razor's mum?
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
unwaveringly dedicated and loyal apologists
Just because people disagree with lazy Fozzie bashing, doesn't make them apologists.
It’s Fun sometimes Fozzie bashing.
What are you, Razor's mum?
No she likes Fozzie,he eats all her treats she makes.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Sometimes I wonder whether Dan54 and Victor Meldrew are some of Ian's relations, as I haven't come across such unwaveringly dedicated and loyal apologists of Fozzie on this forum
So anyone who disagrees with your argument that each and all of the AB's problems since 2016 are down to one man, and one man only, is an apologist for that bloke?
Sound logic.
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@l_n_p said in All Blacks 2021:
Henry, Hansen, Smith, Eddie Jones all went through that. Schmidt too now. Failing is part of learning.
I'd love to see Scott Robertson as AB coach downstream but see prior international experience as hugely useful.
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job. Why on earth would the far more successful Robertson need to coach overseas when Foster didn't? The sooner we discard this incredibly simplistic, black and white thinking the better... It's more about innovation and application.
If makes absolutely no sense to punish our elite players if they go overseas, by ruling them ineligible for the AB's, whilst simultaneously demanding that our elite coaches head overseas. Why give away our most precious intellectual capital for free? Once a coach leaves our shores they may never return. The argument that a quality coach needs a few mediocre years in charge of another test nation is stupid and dated, and was really only ever a 'thing' to ensure Graham Henry and Steve Hansen's tenures went unchallenged.
I don't believe that one needs to head offshore to learn more necessarily. Robertson strikes me as innovative and open to new approaches - someone who is constantly looking for ways to learn and improve. Look at examples like the Crusaders working with one of the NH teams to do a mock analysis of how they would approach playing each other to get insights they would otherwise miss, or him bringing O'Gara into the mix.
Getting out of the comfort zone can be equally achieved by how you approach things and valuing diversity in a coaching group as much as heading off-shore. A black and white approach is much too arbitrary I think...
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Why give away our most precious intellectual capital for free? Once a coach leaves our shores they may never return.
I agree that giving away our precious IP is a key factor that NZ Rugby needs to look at and poss. do something about. Not too sure, though, how that fits with your argument that every single AB problem is solely down to Foster.
I don't believe that one needs to head offshore to learn more necessarily. Robertson strikes me as innovative and open to new approaches - someone who is constantly looking for ways to learn and improve. Look at examples like the Crusaders working with one of the NH teams to do a mock analysis of how they would approach playing each other to get insights they would otherwise miss, or him bringing O'Gara into the mix.
So your argument now is that giving away our precious IP is OK as long as it's done by Robertson and he hasn't left the country?
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@asterik6 said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat A friend of mine is an ex-Chiefs player and says he was f-ing useless. Basically the same stuff Devine is saying.
His coaching style hasn't changed from the 2004 Chiefs gameplan. Headless Chook Rugby 101.
Scant evidence to suggest Foster has improved or updated his coaching methods in 16/17 years..
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
Ian Foster never coached overseas and he has walked into the All Black head coaching job.
Bloody good point mate.
Shit, just another good reason for me to hate Foster.
