Rugby vs NFL
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So, cracking weekend of sport my way. 6N is always a special time up these ways, and I felt the empty stadiums weren't too much of a blight which was nice. Having to watch it at home without company was a bit crap, but such is life. Anyway, I watched around 180 of 240 minutes of the 6N then most of the Super Bowl and I couldn't help but notice the very stark changes since I last watched NFL. Which was probably 10 years ago. I know there are vast differences in the games and thus comparisons are sort of apples/oranges but the core foundation of each game is very similar - size, speed and skill. At least it used to be anyway. So read on if your interested in thoughts, sod off if you ain't ...
The main contrast is just how much NFL has changed for the better, whilst rugby has changed for the worse. Thats quite the opener there, but it's simply true. I'll go through my views.
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Size. It honestly looks like rugby players have spent years just trying to get bigger at the expense of everything else, whilst NFL players don't (to my eyes anyway) look much bigger than say 20 years ago. I found a comparison site and it shows the average is around 10-15 pounds heavier now than 20 years ago. However the fact you don't notice that is very telling. It means these guys are putting it on where it's needed. The players are noticeably leaner than most of their rugby counterparts, and subsequently quicker.
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Player Speed. After watching the 6N forwards slowly batter into each other time and time again, it was so refreshing to see the NFL guys really really hit the line at speed. It made for spectacular viewing when they punched through it, and also when they defended it. The KC shutout on their own line was absolutely compelling, thrilling, viewing. When did you last say the same about forwards going one-off continuously when pushing for a try and the defence holding?
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Game Speed. NFL gets rightly criticised for how long it takes, the time outs etc. But when the action is on, it's proper proper on. Ask yourself this ... would you rather 2-3 mins of no play at all whilst players move / things setup, or 2-3 mins of scrum resets etc? They are comparable now, thats just fact. At least with NFL, you know nothings happens so you can take a piss / grab a beer etc.
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Penalties It may have just been this game, but NFL seems to have retreated to being a game based a lot on penalties. KC got smashed on penalties last night big time and was part of the reason they got rolled. Lots of silly blocks / grabs etc. Some frustration yes, but I imagine as a KC Fan it would make frustrating viewing watching a game changing play (interception / defensive play) be overturned for a pointless penalty. It feels a bit football VAR like .. and nobody will tell you thats a good thing. A positive though is that the superstars of NFL are NOT the kickers. It actually felt like the commentators were reading the briefing notes when talking about them! Literally zero knowledge on the players!
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Excitement I know it was the 6N but the excitement wasn't even comparable. I think Mahomes himself ran further forwards then pretty much so all the backs in the England/Scotland & Wales/Ireland games put together. I really think rugby's appeal to audiences is slipping into being either for purists / or players. X-factor players are few and far between now, as players are more formulaic. Which is kind of strange, given that NFL is formulaic, yet if you watched the games side by side, you'd come to the opposite conclusion
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Safety I don't know what the answer is here. Nobody wants to see rugby players in helmets, pads etc, but who wants to see Peter O'Mahony ballsing up hitting a ruck and being sent off for it? I like O'Mahony as a a player - he's incredibly abrasive & empties the tank every game. He's not dirty. But it had to be a red. The thing is though, if you look at the way the players are hitting the rucks now, it is very very NFL like. But without any protection. What do you think is going to happen every now and again?
So all in all, you could perhaps read the above and think I've changed code for sport watching. And you'd be wrong. I still enjoy rugby and will always watch the AB's play and any NZ super team I can. But it's just gotten the last 10 years completely wrong. Where as NFL seems to have really improved by refining itself, rugby seems to have gone the opposite way by putting size above pretty much so everything. It doesn't make for a better game, far from it.
One final point. There is only one current player who I can think of that I thought perhaps looked like an NFL player. Akira Ioane. Perhaps something in that. Not sure what though.
EDIT: Just thought of another. Taniela Tupou. Imagine him down 50 pounds and refined to be an NFL player. He'd have a real chance of making it. Real chance.
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Regarding point 2. Yes top footballers are freakishly explosive and strong but shit they certainly get more down time than your average Rugby player in which to utilise those gifts.
But I seriously doubt any Rugby players could get close to top running backs sprint times, vertical leaps etc or many forwards could match the kind of weight the tight ends are throwing around.
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@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
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@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
Regarding point 2. Yes top footballers are freakishly explosive and strong but shit they certainly get more down time than your average Rugby player in which to utilise those gifts.
But I seriously doubt any Rugby players could get close to top running backs sprint times, vertical leaps etc or many forwards could match the kind of weight the tight ends are throwing around.
Yeah, and that is part of the discussion and where game comparisons start to fall over. No denial from me. The real debate is if you'd rather watch a 6ft 4, 250 lb, 2 foot wider player do it, or a 6ft4, 200 bl, 1.5 foot wide player do it.
The NFL players look more the latter, and with their downtime, they could be the former.
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@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
Be fair. You are using the worst ball runner in the history of the game to make your point ...
In saying though, I've just thought of something else and will edit original post.
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@MajorRage said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
Be fair. You are using the worst ball runner in the history of the game to make your point ...
In saying though, I've just thought of something else and will edit original post.
Be fair. You used England/Scotland to make your point.
France were wonderful on the weekend - the French flair of old.
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@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
Regarding point 2. Yes top footballers are freakishly explosive and strong but shit they certainly get more down time than your average Rugby player in which to utilise those gifts.
But I seriously doubt any Rugby players could get close to top running backs sprint times, vertical leaps etc or many forwards could match the kind of weight the tight ends are throwing around.
That's because they're specialists.
I used to like NFL because I thought of it as chess with human pieces. But I found this boring and didn't see any tremendous talent like a Jerry Rice etc. Perhaps I don't watch enough these days. A 43 year old was on the winning team and an integral part of it FFS.
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@KiwiMurph said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MajorRage said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
Be fair. You are using the worst ball runner in the history of the game to make your point ...
In saying though, I've just thought of something else and will edit original post.
Be fair. You used England/Scotland to make your point.
France were wonderful on the weekend - the French flair of old.
First point was acknowledged. Second point yes totally .. perhaps they are showing us the way forwards.
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@MajorRage said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
Be fair. You are using the worst ball runner in the history of the game to make your point ...
In saying though, I've just thought of something else and will edit original post.
Well yeah I did but I always read about what a freak he was in the gym.
Why then did he have all the impact of a fly hitting a windshield when he ran the ball ?
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@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MajorRage said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
Be fair. You are using the worst ball runner in the history of the game to make your point ...
In saying though, I've just thought of something else and will edit original post.
Well yeah I did but I always read about what a freak he was in the gym.
Why then did he have all the impact of a fly hitting a windshield when he ran the ball ?
I probably could have just written that instead of my dissertation.
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@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MajorRage said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 said in Rugby vs NFL:
@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
@MN5 That's a great point, if you're having to get to each ruck quickly, you can't focus on training for single play athletic ability.
Yeah I remember Red Beard or Bart said it was extremely tough after scrummaging, rucking and mauling to be dynamic with the ball in hand, in saying that obviously the current batch of props do this much better than Owen Franks ever did.
Be fair. You are using the worst ball runner in the history of the game to make your point ...
In saying though, I've just thought of something else and will edit original post.
Well yeah I did but I always read about what a freak he was in the gym.
Why then did he have all the impact of a fly hitting a windshield when he ran the ball ?
You answered that earlier; specialist.
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@Tim said in Rugby vs NFL:
Is the NFL actually a WADA regulated sport for doping? I imagine that there is a lot more juicing there than in rugby.
According to Google, American Football is (the world governing body is a member), but the NFL does its own testing and doesn't test for everything that WADA does.
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Unripe apples v ripe oranges
First round of 6N v culmination of NFL season.
Maybe compare later rounds of the 6N
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@MajorRage great post.
Penalties aren't often the defining element in the game - and I thought yesterday wasn't a great game; lots of drops, didn't really get going. It's like so many sports, the semi equivalent (conference championships) are often better games that the finals.
That said, I really got into NFL a few years ago as it's an absolute apex sport. Specialisation of positions and body types, coaching from the sideline having a huge influence on the game - it's as close as you come to chess with human beings (or war with generals directing troops). Also, the money is insane. The broadcasting revenue alone of the weakest NFL team is about 4-5 times that of the total NZ Rugby turnover. With that money comes elite training, prep, skills and coaching.
And yet, some players shine. I think Mahomes threw some great balls yesterday, but got let down by his receivers. KC just didn't fire. Games can turn on a knife edge, but the TD at the end of the first half for me was huge in putting the game away. TB is one hell of a player, and the offense just got going.
Watch more - follow some teams, watch some good players coming throuhg from College.
@tim you can watch on replay Mon/Tue/Fri - which means they are fast games without ad breaks, with continuous action. Good fun.
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Not to necessarily counter the points of the OP but NH rugby (particularly UK) has been fixated on size for quite some time. The chances of someone like DMac getting a chance are slim. Even at lower club level the players look like Saffas that munch Roidos as a breakfast cereal.
Oz tend to favor a beach physique with emphasis on arms and upper body while NZ do a lot of core work. -
By far the biggest difference in the games is continuity for players and performance under fatigue. I know that rugby has the scrum reset/set blight at the moment but that is still minimal compared with going and having a sit down while a whole new team goes on the field.
Big motors are way more effective than pure athletic ability in rugby.
