Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?
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@antipodean said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
It's a dream deal isn't it? An eighth of all revenue (not profit!) for the rest of time for only $387 million upfront.
@Bovidae Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.And if they can use their contacts (i.e. other businesses in which they invest) to help us do that, they'll get more revenue through getting those businesses to contribute to our costs, and they won't give a fuck whether we make 1% or 30% profit as long as we stay in business.
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@antipodean were all experts eh..only relaying what I was told …
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Another take on Reado's comments.
Maybe we didn't need to look for an ancient ex AB to try and talk sense into the parties. Just a newly retired one.
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@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
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@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
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@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
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@crucial said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Another take on Reado's comments.
Maybe we didn't need to look for an ancient ex AB to try and talk sense into the parties. Just a newly retired one.
He's talking shit tho, "New Zealand Rugby to me is saying ‘this is the right option, it’s all we’ve looked at, , this is going to give us our best options’" NZR have looked at loads off other options. A slight finger on the pulse would make that obvious
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@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
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@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I remember the same. Must have had some overseas denominated contracts which they took a position on. Trading with reserves would be different.
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
He's talking shit tho, "New Zealand Rugby to me is saying ‘this is the right option, it’s all we’ve looked at, , this is going to give us our best options’" NZR have looked at loads off other options. A slight finger on the pulse would make that obvious
What are the other options? What is the do nothing at this point option?
I'm still yet to see why this influx of capital is necessary. If the straits are so dire could we see at least some rationalization of the bloated professional system.
Even if it were the case that there is some magical way to increase revenues - why does this require vast amounts of capital? The All Blacks are not a resource company that needs to sink billions into a new oil field or coal mine which they will make back over the decades to follow. What possible revenue stream requires any major capital investment - this is an organization which has players play rugby games?
The one possible exception would be if the NZRU were in a crap stadium situation and had massive attendance. Then you could make the case for building a stadium they own which would generate massive additional revenue each year( think England without Twickers, if they had to hand over a big % to the FA every test playing at Wembley) - but that is not even close to the case here.
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@rotated I'm not going to Google all the articles and media releases where NZR listed the options they and their investment team went through. And it includes 'do nothing and go under cos we can't compete with NH wages and grass roots is dying'. But they looked at them, including a version of what the players are suggesting. It came down to silver lake was the best and that was presented to the Unions - who unanimously agreed.
Now I'm not saying it is the best option, I don't know, but to accuse the NZR of just going straight to SL without looking at anything else is utter bollocks ~ Read should be fucking ashamed to spout such bullshit, unless he's lying on purpose. It is showing no respect for a body that had done amazingly well financially over the professional period. No other RU had come close to doing as well as NZ. No other Union had anything close to a big cash buffer like we did when covid hit. Fucks sake, the so called richest Union England had splashed all it's money on random artificial turf throughout the country and was cutting costs and posts before covid hit!
So have a Google for NZR statements, they list all the options they investigated. And read should apologize for talking crap before he actually did some research
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@machpants the threat of players wages is over stated. We are not at some sort of crisis or tipping point. Sure it’s been a trend but they don’t need $380m and selling 12.5% of your revenue for ever is stupid. No one does that.
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@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants the threat of players wages is over stated. We are not at some sort of crisis or tipping point. Sure it’s been a trend but they don’t need $380m and selling 12.5% of your revenue for ever is stupid. No one does that.
It's not stupid at all, 6N and other comps have already done it, selling much higher percentages. Flat out calling what NZR is proposing as stupid or whatever is internet talk. NZR have done their homework, they know all the numbers much better than us, and they think it is the best way going forward. As I said, I don't know, I'm worried about the deal, but blanket 'it's stupid' statements are disrespectful and themselves stupid.
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Behind paywall, but another good explainer
Silver Lake or Forsyth Barr? The pros and cons of two NZ Rugby deals
Is a proposal to float part of NZ Rugby real, or the players flexing their powers?
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@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
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@snowy said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
Yup millions from holding it in USD
@snowy said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
Yup millions from holding payments in USD
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants the threat of players wages is over stated. We are not at some sort of crisis or tipping point. Sure it’s been a trend but they don’t need $380m and selling 12.5% of your revenue for ever is stupid. No one does that.
It's not stupid at all, 6N and other comps have already done it, selling much higher percentages. Flat out calling what NZR is proposing as stupid or whatever is internet talk. NZR have done their homework, they know all the numbers much better than us, and they think it is the best way going forward. As I said, I don't know, I'm worried about the deal, but blanket 'it's stupid' statements are disrespectful and themselves stupid.
Ok then. I think it is really really stupid. Tell me exactly what 6 Nations rugby have done - it’s the structure of these deals that is important.
Selling your current secure revenues for new uncertain revenues where the purchaser has all their downside risk mitigated, and where you will employ new unknown 3rd parties to create these new revenues doesn’t sound smart. It’s NZRFU who is taking all the risk - in return it’s getting more money than it needs which will sit in reserves.
The focus in this discussion shouldn’t be on the money, it should be on what this new business model is. If that doesn’t work then it’s a really bad deal. CRICHQ comes to mind. This stuff is hard and risky.
What are these new revenues? Rugby’s traditional revenues streams are competitions, tickets and broadcasting rights. Things like merchandise can grow from that over time but others can do that. The story is not clear - what does access to new markets really mean? gaming ....? Is this partner the right one for this new business?
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@snowy said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
Yup millions from holding it in USD
@snowy said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
Yup millions from holding payments in USD
Did you #booboo yourself in the same post? Impressive
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@booboo said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@snowy said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
Yup millions from holding it in USD
@snowy said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kirwan said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@bovidae said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
Silver Lake are behind the UFC so I assume maximising the worldwide PPV audience is one of the main potential income streams.
As to taking out a loan, NZR has stated why that isn't possible - they have no assets to secure the loan against.
But why do they need $387m now. Putting money into reserves earns you nothing?
Didn't they used to earn money on reserves with investments in currency?
They would have protected against movements where exposed but damn sure they wouldn’t be trading.
That’s the type of shit which brings down businesses.
I just remember them making a decent amount on something they did with how they got paid and what currency it was held in.
Like Homer, I’ve learned something and it’s pushed shit out of my brain.
I haven't read all of the above so might Booboo but yes they were hedging currency risk as TB revenues weren't in NZD IIRC, They ended up with a gain from it.
Yup millions from holding payments in USD
Did you #booboo yourself in the same post? Impressive
I blame the interweb gremlins
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@machpants said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@kev said in Silver Lake buying a stake in the ABs?:
@machpants the threat of players wages is over stated. We are not at some sort of crisis or tipping point. Sure it’s been a trend but they don’t need $380m and selling 12.5% of your revenue for ever is stupid. No one does that.
It's not stupid at all, 6N and other comps have already done it, selling much higher percentages. Flat out calling what NZR is proposing as stupid or whatever is internet talk. NZR have done their homework, they know all the numbers much better than us, and they think it is the best way going forward. As I said, I don't know, I'm worried about the deal, but blanket 'it's stupid' statements are disrespectful and themselves stupid.
Point is that the exisiting revenue will be worth more to a party other than Silver Lake. If the USP of SL is growing revenue base then incentivise them on growth.
Fair chance with existing deal Sl will securitise some of revenue stream anyway to recuperate much if not all of investment.
Perhaps NZR should have a chat to Goldman.
