When should Foster go?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
None of this is due solely to Foster - it's been there for at least a year or more.
Foster has been there since 2012.
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@Jailbreak7 said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew I dont think we need to wait a year do we? At this level - to quite Foster - you need to "lay down a marker" - pretty much immediately, and he has had more than enough time to show us what he has in the stores armory . Im afraid the Plan Cupboard is all but bare unhinged and is falling off the wall.
Foster has had too much time unvested in him already. The rest of the rugby world is laughing at our demise and meanwhile the "brand" has gone to hell in a handcart
Time to get real. Enough is enough.The fact that he’s already been involved for 8 years before now means he’s not going to be afforded much grace for a transition period. He had to hit the ground running and he’s not
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@nostrildamus said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
None of this is due solely to Foster - it's been there for at least a year or more.
Foster has been there since 2012.
Wasn't Head Coach, wasn't solely in charge. Can't be solely to blame for years' old problems.
Should have been aware of the problems and had a plan to fix them. That might take more than 4-5 games. Personally not convinced but he needs to be given a fair go.
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@junior said in When should Foster go?:
The fact that he’s already been involved for 8 years before now means he’s not going to be afforded much grace for a transition period.
Great point.
He had to hit the ground running and he’s not
Fair point, but only if he was in charge leading up to his appointment, which he probably wasn't. If the whole idea of Foster was to maintain continuity, then it seems to have have failed. Hard to say if that's due to him or not.
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@Bones said in When should Foster go?:
@Crucial said in When should Foster go?:
I do wonder if you have ever kicked a rugby ball.
Bro, what the fuck? What would anyone here having kicked a ball have to do with Mounga consistently fucking them up? You think he's kicking a different ball than anyone else getting paid plenty of money to do so? Because we can quite easily compare.
The kick Mounga missed was about 45 out and 10-15 in from touch wasn't it? I don't think you can get a better position to be kicking it from even if you're a social club player, let alone a highly paid professional.
Knew someone was going to bring up Carter too. That's like saying it's ok for SB to give away the odd penalty because Retallick does too. At least Carter would still have the capacity to steer the team around, make tackles and score plenty of points if he made a mistake and not shrink back from it.
I am a RM fan, and think he is the best 10 we have at the moment, but when he missed that kicked I groaned and muttered something to the missus that he cannot afford to miss those kicks given the battle he is in for his spot. It was 100% the wrong time to fluff something like that and he let himself down badly.
Interesting concept that it is ok for some players to make the same mistakes as others simply because they are better players. Not sure I agree with that, but I do get where you are coming from.
I think RM and Barrett are copping too much of the blame for the last two losses. Our problems are way deeper than that.
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@Crazy-Horse said in When should Foster go?:
Interesting concept that it is ok for some players to make the same mistakes as others simply because they are better players. Not sure I agree with that, but I do get where you are coming from.
It's not simply because they're better players though. It's because they'll do their job and do what's needed to get their team on top. RM had done SFA until then, that was a perfect moment to step up, do the basics and start to get his team looking like winners. And he can't even butter his bread, what he should be able to do with his eyes closed. It's not just a missed touch, I can't imagine that not having an effect on others in the team too.
Yeah problems are definitely bigger than that but when your guy who's supposed to be the master planner is so unreliable, you probably should start there.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
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@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
Even though we all know he needs to go, we should also probably know that he won't be sacked or stand down as Covid will be bandied about as an excuse in unsettled times and all that.
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@Hooroo said in When should Foster go?:
@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
Even though we all know he needs to go, we should also probably know that he won't be sacked or stand down as Covid will be bandied about as an excuse in unsettled times and all that.
Well same, or worse, for the opposition, so it shouldn't be
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@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
Cool, one more game and he's gone
For some reason, I thought we were playing Italy & Wales in late-Winter (NZ).
Probably best you're right. Don't think I could hack the thought of losing to Italy & Wales (for the first time in 70 years..)
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@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Hooroo said in When should Foster go?:
@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
Even though we all know he needs to go, we should also probably know that he won't be sacked or stand down as Covid will be bandied about as an excuse in unsettled times and all that.
Well same, or worse, for the opposition, so it shouldn't be
I agree, but there are a lot of people who look foolish around his selection as coach and they won't be quick to admit it.
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@Bones said in When should Foster go?:
@Crazy-Horse said in When should Foster go?:
Interesting concept that it is ok for some players to make the same mistakes as others simply because they are better players. Not sure I agree with that, but I do get where you are coming from.
It's not simply because they're better players though. It's because they'll do their job and do what's needed to get their team on top. RM had done SFA until then, that was a perfect moment to step up, do the basics and start to get his team looking like winners. And he can't even butter his bread, what he should be able to do with his eyes closed. It's not just a missed touch, I can't imagine that not having an effect on others in the team too.
Yeah problems are definitely bigger than that but when your guy who's supposed to be the master planner is so unreliable, you probably should start there.
Not defending RM for the miss because it was inexcusable. I do wonder how Carter would actually go in this team and with trying to combat the rush defence. It wasn't really anything he had to deal with. And he had pretty good forward pack in front of him.
Neither RM nor BB are bad players. They are not being given the platform to perform. Are there any 10s out there looking like world beaters, especially ones operating behind a disappointing pack?
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@Crazy-Horse think the difference is DC was able to adapt and react a bit quicker than most mortals
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@Victor-Meldrew you’re too generous. He’s been there long enough to say something unless he was just a puppet.
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@Crazy-Horse Agreed. It starts in the forwards and we’re not winning that battle and we know that has been our problem for several years. We are also unsettled in our centers which doesn’t help. Would like a bigger 2nd five outside BB or RM because both of them are slight. Where is the next Nonu?
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Dylan Cleaver puts it well this morning. To justify appointing Foster, the entire NZR regime had to drink the Kool Aid - with disastrous effect.
What message does it send if you look outside this well-thumbed Book of Lore for your next leader? Does it mean it was all a bit of a crock? It's an awkward message at the very least. This mythology becomes problematic on another level, too, because the very people who cannot afford to believe it start to: the players. The simple truth is that the majority of these All Blacks are not as good as the ones who went immediately before them, but they have been fooled into thinking that winning the "jersey" is the endgame and that everything that follows from there is pre-ordained. As a learned friend wrote to me on Sunday morning: "These All Blacks go out expecting to win. That is not their fault; that is the fault of management and the leadership of the organisation. This is what happens when your world order has been taught, not earned." -
part of the problem was Rennie didnt apply, Joseph didnt apply, Schmidt didnt apply, Gatland couldnt apply, leaving a 2 horse race with 2 men with zero head coaching experience at International level, but one had been part of a successful (the numbers back this up, even if the on field stuff left alot to be desired) International coaching team...
Not saying I agreed with it, but when you look at it, NZR were down to a coin toss...right now, looks like they went heads when they shoulda gone tails!
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@taniwharugby Maybe they should have started the process earlier when Rennie was available. But I assume a lot of these guys saw the writing on the wall and the NZRU tendency to stick with status quo. It’s a bit of an old boys network. Maybe next time they can have an anonymous survey of players who could discuss the merits of potential coaches.
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@broughie possibly, although it isnt like it was a secret Hansen was leaving either and the job would be up post RWC.
I guess for Rennie, he knew he wouldnt be the only candidate from outside the cool kids club, so maybe he had looked at who he might be up against, plus the history of internal succession, and though safe option was to take the Aus job on offer instead of waiting for the AB job to come up, that he mightnt get (similarly Joseph, Schmidt was always an outside shot given he had said he wasnt applying)
Wasnt it also only 6 months earlier Robertson had said he wasnt sure he was ready for it (or was that 2018?)
