Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****
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@taniwharugby Your link isn't working? Or have you disappeared behind the hedge already? (I quoted it to find the link).
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
The numbers bear out your assertion Nep. Looks like a 30% drop in worldwide box office take from Ep 4 to 5 and 6 (despite them being vastly superior films and being 3 years apart). Compare that to a 35% drop between ep7 and Ep8, 50% drop between ep7 and RO. Solo is the outlier, which is a shame because it was a great film. I am sure, like many things, there are multiple reasons for the drop; diehard fans like RS who can't bear to go along anymore (I know a mate who is like that), and surely a significant degree of SW fatigue
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
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@virgil said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12066143
Interesting how this article claimed that Daisy Ridley deleted her Instagram account because of SW trolls. Funnily enough that's complete bullshit.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mashable.com/2016/09/26/why-daisy-ridley-quit-instagram.amp
That article is from 2016.
Another awesome piece of "journalism".
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
C'mon Nepia, I never claimed TLJ was a failure at the box office. But it was very badly received by fans, particularly the hardcore ones. That must have had an effect on Solo, regardless of release. It also wasn't helped by the slander from the dickheads at Lucasfilm. Imagine if Lucas himself had acted that way after TPM?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
C'mon Nepia, I never claimed TLJ was a failure at the box office. But it was very badly received by fans, particularly the hardcore ones. That must have had an effect on Solo, regardless of release. It also wasn't helped by the slander from the dickheads at Lucasfilm. Imagine if Lucas himself had acted that way after TPM?
Some ... I saw the movie with a bunch of hardcore fans, none who received it as badly as you make out, furthermore, remember back to how badly hardcore fans received The Phantom Menace (it was like the air coming out of a whoopee cushion), that didn't kill the franchise dead.
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I thought the marketing for Solo sucked...
I know prior to the last 2 SW movies they were releasing snippets and previews for months and months prior.
Now I'm not a hardcore SW fan, but I usually keep a good eye on what new releases and that are coming (particularly genres like this) and had all but forgotten about Solo before people started talking more about it.
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
C'mon Nepia, I never claimed TLJ was a failure at the box office. But it was very badly received by fans, particularly the hardcore ones. That must have had an effect on Solo, regardless of release. It also wasn't helped by the slander from the dickheads at Lucasfilm. Imagine if Lucas himself had acted that way after TPM?
Some ... I saw the movie with a bunch of hardcore fans, none who received it as badly as you make out, furthermore, remember back to how badly hardcore fans received The Phantom Menace (it was like the air coming out of a whoopee cushion), that didn't kill the franchise dead.
The big difference, no massive difference, here is that TFM wasn't marketed at existing fans. Lucas cynically went after the kids and new Star Wars fans. Kids loved TFM while people of our age were rather let down (to put it mildly). There was still also massive goodwill from the OT. That goodwill is gone.
I'm not sure who they're trying to target now, but they've managed to piss off the hardcore fans, the youngsters (particularly young boys) are underwhelmed (what new figure was there for them to buy from TLJ? ) and casuals prefer other franchises. It's a total cluster fuck. I'm sure they can limp on for another trilogy, but it's pretty damning that Marvel can go from strength to strength and a SW film actually flops. What I find absolutely incredible is that such an underwhelming Marvel character like Dr Strange can be a massive hit, yet a film about Han farking Solo bombs. Something ain't right there. Timing or not, something is broken and needs fixing.
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@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
C'mon Nepia, I never claimed TLJ was a failure at the box office. But it was very badly received by fans, particularly the hardcore ones. That must have had an effect on Solo, regardless of release. It also wasn't helped by the slander from the dickheads at Lucasfilm. Imagine if Lucas himself had acted that way after TPM?
Some ... I saw the movie with a bunch of hardcore fans, none who received it as badly as you make out, furthermore, remember back to how badly hardcore fans received The Phantom Menace (it was like the air coming out of a whoopee cushion), that didn't kill the franchise dead.
Very fair point. There are obviously differences. Virgil, @MN5 and myself are hardcore. But, like a music fan with a favourite group, Virgil is intensely loyal while myself and @MN5 are obviously alot more demanding. Problem is that there are a shit load like me and @MN5 now and that ain't good. I think if the movies (or at least triology) continue this way there will be many more and I'm not sure where the fans to replace us will come from. It's like pissing off a huge chunk of rock fans in the vain hope of picking up jazz fans. Actually sometimes it seems like the equivalent of them trying to piss off the Metallica or Guns N Roses fans to capture the Scissor Sisters fans.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
C'mon Nepia, I never claimed TLJ was a failure at the box office. But it was very badly received by fans, particularly the hardcore ones. That must have had an effect on Solo, regardless of release. It also wasn't helped by the slander from the dickheads at Lucasfilm. Imagine if Lucas himself had acted that way after TPM?
Some ... I saw the movie with a bunch of hardcore fans, none who received it as badly as you make out, furthermore, remember back to how badly hardcore fans received The Phantom Menace (it was like the air coming out of a whoopee cushion), that didn't kill the franchise dead.
Very fair point. There are obviously differences. Virgil and myself are hardcore. But, like a music fan with a favourite group, he is intensely loyal while I'm obviously alot more demanding. Problem is that there are a shit load like me now and that ain't good. I think if the movies (or at least triology) continue this way there will be many more and I'm not sure where the fans to replace us will come from. It's like pissing off a huge chunk of rock fans in the vain hope of picking up jazz fans. Actually sometimes it seems like the equivalent of them trying to piss off the Metallica or Guns N Roses fans to capture the Scissor Sisters fans.
I am beyond devastated that you didn't mention me in this post
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@mn5 said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@nepia said in Star Wars VII ****contains spoilers****:
@rancid-schnitzel No it's not, it's just to you because you're on the negative side. TFA, R1 and TLJ were all the biggest box office films of the year. The drop from the mega huge box office of the first released film (after a time) to TLJ was consistent with the Star Wars series. I'm willing to bet that Episode 9 will top the box office when it's released as well. Solo is the anomaly at this point in time.
The Star Wars universe has created lots of shit character diverse or not. I'm sure they always try to create good ones but sometimes they come up with a Jar Jar.
Yes it is. You honestly think a stand alone film following in the wake of ROTS would have tanked? The goodwill is gone, the momentum is gone. Solo is proof of that. Those are the facts. Spin them as much as you want but they can't be changed.
Jar Jar was shit but there were a heap of great new characters even if the films were ordinary. We saw Qui Gon, Maul, Mace, J Fett, Dooku, Grevious etc. Even the ones you barely saw like Plo Kloon and Kit Fisto were cool. The Clone Wars threw up even more awesome characters. What have the new ones offered? Sweet fa. So yeah maybe less focus on race, gender and sexuality please and more on great characters and plotlines.
lol. You're saying I'm spinning facts (which are just facts) when you're engaging in whataboutery.
If Solo was released at Xmas and did the same business I might be inclined to believe you but like as I said, I'm confident the next Star Wars will top of the box office (actually, if it comes out in the same year as Avengers 2 it wont be, but it'll easily top $1.3B).
What facts am I spinning? Yes all SW had drop offs in income but what evidence do you have that Solo would have been a Christmas hit? It didn't even open against another blockbuster and plenty of other films have been released at that time of year, including ROTJ.
Again I will ask, do you seriously believe Solo would have tanked if TLJ was better received by fans?
I didn't say you were spinning facts, I said you were engaging in whataboutery, you said I was spinning facts. But now you're agreeing with my facts.
To engage in whataboutery, I don't think Solo would tank if it was released at xmas time and I while I think TLJ has an influence I don't think it's the sole determiner - the anti TLJ people make a lot of noise, but lots still like the film - I think the release date was more crucial (as I said earlier the Star Wars universe doesn't fit a multiple release schedule similar to the Marvel universe).
My point was that those facts don't support your overall argument. Could there have been a fall in overall gross? Quite possibly. But this isn't a fall, this is catastrophic. I see no reason why SW can't replicate the Marvel model if done right (i.e. they fix the broken trilogy). It's not that long ago that if you'd said Marvel films could be released as they are now you'd be laughed at. This idea that SW can only be embraced in small doses is a sad reflection on where the Franchise is at right now.
You're claiming TLJ to be a big failure, when it's not, it's consistent with the performance of the previous trilogies.
We'll have to agree to disagree about the model. I think Star Wars is a once a year type of release irrelevant of TLJ haters.
C'mon Nepia, I never claimed TLJ was a failure at the box office. But it was very badly received by fans, particularly the hardcore ones. That must have had an effect on Solo, regardless of release. It also wasn't helped by the slander from the dickheads at Lucasfilm. Imagine if Lucas himself had acted that way after TPM?
Some ... I saw the movie with a bunch of hardcore fans, none who received it as badly as you make out, furthermore, remember back to how badly hardcore fans received The Phantom Menace (it was like the air coming out of a whoopee cushion), that didn't kill the franchise dead.
Very fair point. There are obviously differences. Virgil and myself are hardcore. But, like a music fan with a favourite group, he is intensely loyal while I'm obviously alot more demanding. Problem is that there are a shit load like me now and that ain't good. I think if the movies (or at least triology) continue this way there will be many more and I'm not sure where the fans to replace us will come from. It's like pissing off a huge chunk of rock fans in the vain hope of picking up jazz fans. Actually sometimes it seems like the equivalent of them trying to piss off the Metallica or Guns N Roses fans to capture the Scissor Sisters fans.
I am beyond devastated that you didn't mention me in this post
I'm truly sorry. While the belated edit can't fix the hurt I've caused, I hope it will go some way to assuring you that you were never forgotten.
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Lando back apparently.
No doubt they'll have to him die an honourable death off screen after rubbing up against a few droids.