Lance
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He robbed clean, hard-working riders of wins. He cheated and lied. A disguisting human being
no he didn't. If you weren't doping you're not a professional cyclist. You try riding around France at 43kph without doping.. ha.
He was the scapegoat for over 100 years of doping in the pro peloton. The fact that he was a bit of a carnt shouldn't come into any sanction he received. That carnt factor was also made him a winner.
People always come down hard on his for 'ruining peoples lives'.. which is utter shite. He harmed their employment for a moment in time. 'Disgusting' human being would be for referring to this I guess - I'm always interested to hear the feedback as to why these handful of cyclists are so much more important than the THOUSANDS of people that Lance did good things for in the cancer space - including those who went to their graves happy that he reached out to them.
Why don't you take any of his 'good' into account when you call him a POS - surely the good outweighs the bad?
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He robbed clean, hard-working riders of wins. He cheated and lied. A disguisting human being
Who were the clean ones?
Greg Lemond and Nicole Cooke called out dopers throughout their careers. Fairly sure they were both clean. Sometimes they won, sometimes they lost, but I have a lot more respect for them than certain other pro cyclists of their era.
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@WillieTheWaiter Everything with Lance Armstrong was built on a lie. All his "achievements". He put together the most cynical, systematic, cheating system in history of sport and bullied his way to fame. Even when he claimed he was coming back clean, he was cheating. If I wanted to see people wizz around France on two wheels as fast as possible, I'd watch them on motorbikes.
I want to watch guys compete but inside the agreed and public-stated rules. That's sport. Armstrong had no time for that fundamental convention of competition. A loathsome man who corrupted others. If there was one clean rider in the Pelaton in that era they have my respect much more than a thousand Lance Armstrongs.
Call me old fashioned, but integrity matters.
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@WillieTheWaiter Everything with Lance Armstrong was built on a lie. All his "achievements". He put together the most cynical, systematic, cheating system in history of sport
i'm sorry but that statement is utter bullshit. It has it's roots in USADA's statements at the time which was something along those lines.
For clarity - USADA had never investigated another cycling team. I'm not even sure they'd investigated a "team". So for them to say "most complex doping scheme they'd ever seen" (or whatever the exact words were) wasn't exactly a lie - but some bloke dishing out too many panadols to a team and they looked into it would fit the same bill.
Like many things around Armstrongs doping it's just become part of the over dramatised myth.They injected EPO. Just like every other team, and pretty much every other professional sportsman. Nothing complex about it - just a bloke driving a motorbike around france dropping it off.
You really think that's the most systematic cheating system in the history of sport...??! East Germans.. Russians.. they don't hit the top of your list?
And no way you can say "he" set that up.. as I said, all the teams were doing the same thing. Remember, the reason they started doping as a team was cause they couldn't keep up. You make it sound like doping didn't exist before or after he raced. As I said, he's the scapegoat for drugs in cycling. If you're pi$$ed at him you should be equally pissed at 1000's of others. -
@canefan yeah but now? I can't get to play now on the app
Its finishing in 40 minutes. Not on demand. Next viewing is tomorrow or Thursday? It's almost stone age
Not on demand, fucking killing me!!!!
I'm using Sky Sport Now. Couldn't find it in the features section but when I went back to 11pm on Monday night on ESPN1, you can just play it off there.
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lance:
@WillieTheWaiter Everything with Lance Armstrong was built on a lie. All his "achievements". He put together the most cynical, systematic, cheating system in history of sport
i'm sorry but that statement is utter bullshit. It has it's roots in USADA's statements at the time which was something along those lines.
For clarity - USADA had never investigated another cycling team. I'm not even sure they'd investigated a "team". So for them to say "most complex doping scheme they'd ever seen" (or whatever the exact words were) wasn't exactly a lie - but some bloke dishing out too many panadols to a team and they looked into it would fit the same bill.
Like many things around Armstrongs doping it's just become part of the over dramatised myth.They injected EPO. Just like every other team, and pretty much every other professional sportsman. Nothing complex about it - just a bloke driving a motorbike around france dropping it off.
You really think that's the most systematic cheating system in the history of sport...??! East Germans.. Russians.. they don't hit the top of your list?
And no way you can say "he" set that up.. as I said, all the teams were doing the same thing. Remember, the reason they started doping as a team was cause they couldn't keep up. You make it sound like doping didn't exist before or after he raced. As I said, he's the scapegoat for drugs in cycling. If you're pi$$ed at him you should be equally pissed at 1000's of others.Yup there is a reason none of his stripped titles have been given to the second placers, they were all doing it
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@Machpants the Schlecks were caught more recently weren't they? And I wouldn't be surprised if Sky were up to something, such was their dominance
I thought it was pretty clear Team Sky were up to something dodgy...
Remarkable drugs report shatters Team Sky’s illusion of integrity | Martha Kelner
David Brailsford’s ‘winning clean’ ethos with Sky has been exposed as an empty pledge by an inquiry whose damning findings stretch far and wide
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@Machpants the Schlecks were caught more recently weren't they? And I wouldn't be surprised if Sky were up to something, such was their dominance
I thought it was pretty clear Team Sky were up to something dodgy...
Remarkable drugs report shatters Team Sky’s illusion of integrity | Martha Kelner
David Brailsford’s ‘winning clean’ ethos with Sky has been exposed as an empty pledge by an inquiry whose damning findings stretch far and wide
I missed that, but I'm not surprised
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lance:
@WillieTheWaiter
They injected EPO. Just like every other team, and pretty much every other professional sportsman.Not everyone dopes. Indeed I suspect the vast, vast majority of global, elite sportsmen never had and never, ever would.
Defend Armstrong if you want to but please don't slander the vast majority of clean athletes.
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Yeah well it’s not even on ESPN in the UK it seems. The only way you can watch it here is on ESPN player for a separate monthly subscription.
Update for UK:
It’s on BT Sport 2. Part 1 is being replayed Sunday May 31 @ 2200. Part 2 is on Mon Jun 01 @ 2130.
Geez, you're still paying for sport channel subscriptions?
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Not everyone dopes. Indeed I suspect the vast, vast majority of global, elite sportsmen never had and never, ever would.
Don't take this post as a troll @sparky , because it's definitely not intended that way.
I used to think that way, but at the top level drugs make a fair old difference, and you're dealing with such fine margins. Given that no major drug users have been picked up during their careers; it's all been whistle blowers or confessions rather than testing, I don't think that you can conclude that drug testing works (except in unusual cases like Ostapchuk using old drugs in competition).
To put it another way, if Lance Armstrong, the most tested athlete on the planet never tested positive, how the hell can we expect to pick up anyone?
Therefore, all we can do is 'hope' that most people aren't doing drugs. And 'doping' is a wide ranging statement too; the performance comes from the TEU (Sky, looking at you), Sharapova's 'Meldonium medicine', and so on.
I don't think most people dope. But, for the winners, we don't know who is and isn't doping, and frankly that took away from my enjoyment of a lot of (particularly athletic) sport. I really didn't engage with the last olympics, because you just don't know who's clean and who's not, and most of them are some shade of grey.
Hell, we don't know how many Kiwis are doping, or even All Blacks/Rugby players. Doping wouldn't be a massive contributor in Rugby, but it'd sure help.
There's a great book written by an early professional who headed over to France (googled it: Confessions of a Rugby Mercenary). He talks frankly about doping, eye gouging, and life as a pro. It's a good read, and shows the 'sport as a business' that Rugby was rapidly becoming.
Anyway, back to your statement - most don't, but I'd be surprised if most winners weren't doping somehow.
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So Lance is on ESPN NZ tonight at 11pm. Not sure how a "30 for 30" doco goes for 120mins, but hey.
So I'm a bottle+ deep already and still 2hrs from kick off. Luckily they're showing kobes farewell game right now to get me to the start line.
A warning, please disregard all posts I make for the next 4 hours (more than you usually would)
