Transgender debate, in sport, in general
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@Victor-Meldrew yeah, KJK is a Pom and part of the same general movement/groundswell
And am aware of Sturgeon's stupidity. I'm pretty sure her main goal was to try to engineer intervention by the UK government to stir up nationalist fervour, whilst appearing uber woke. Backfired somewhat.
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@booboo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Backfired somewhat.
Understatement. Good thing was it just highlighted the sheer stupidity of much of the pro-trans debate - hopefully that debate can now take place in a more mature way.
Edit: The "Prime Minister Chris Hipkins also weighed in, saying he condemned people who abused their right to freedom of speech to “create division” comment is a classic. As if lawfully expressing a view others disagree with is divisive.
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@booboo yeah, very shameful day for NZ allowing that to happen. The media are despicable as well, constantly framing her as an "anti transgender activist supported by neo-nazis". The media aren't beholden to the activists, they are the activists.
The optics of that are insane as well. A small group of women gathered to talk about women's rights, and they were attacked by a mob of mostly biological men, and the police did nothing to protect them. Just crazy.
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@Victor-Meldrew the pollies weighing in on this is just another issue of many I didn't mention in my initial rant.
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@No-Quarter said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@booboo yeah, very shameful day for NZ allowing that to happen. The media are despicable as well, constantly framing her as an "anti transgender activist supported by neo-nazis". The media aren't beholden to the activists, they are the activists.
The optics of that are insane as well. A small group of women gathered to talk about women's rights, and they were attacked by a mob of mostly biological men, and the police did nothing to protect them. Just crazy.
agree with you. for me this was one of the most shameful weeks in nz history
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hope this works https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639443651293220864
[mod edit - fixing the embed url]
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@voodoo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@booboo Free speech is alive and well - provided you’re on the left of centre.
The western world is sleepwalking into a nightmare.
It astonishes me how quickly hard won freedom gets binned and justified when it aligns with someone's personal viewpoint. I dipped into Reddit, where people argued that throwing tomato juice over someone wasn't violence or assault, and was perfectly justified. The issue for me is precedent and escalation; I'll bet throwing a dildo that hits Grant Robertson, or tomato juice over Jacinda Adern wouldn't be seen as funny or OK.
Free speech for speech you agree with is not free speech. Free speech for people you fundamentally disagree with is important and healthy. Like a lot of things, I get the sense this won't end well.
Edit: and escalation; once one side starts using physicality, you expect it and bring a proportionately bigger presence to the next rally. It's a spiral of shittiness that won't end well for anyone.
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As far I can tell the Spinoff , Stuff, the Herald and Newshub did a fantastic job………of destroying what little trust the public had left in them .
Contrast their coverage of this with their coverage of the parliament protests last year for a start . Also smearing her as a Nazi helped whip up the violence we saw yesterday.
The trans men involved like Shaleel Lal backed up my impression that 10% of trans men are actually trans and the rest are basically narcissistic misogynistic bullies . The glee they showed while pushing apart the barriers and mobbing a tiny middle aged woman was actually quite disturbing to watch .
Chloe Swarbrick and Marama Davidson managed to come out looking the worst of all of our MPs , hardly surprising really. Plenty of others soiled themselves though .
The rest of the world seems to have peak transed and the countries like Sweden and Finland that were the first to cave to the excesses of trans activists are changing their laws back and banning the sterilisation of children. I fear we’ll be the last to that particular party if this weekend is anything to go by.
Not a great look for NZ , if you visit the Pure NZ twitter page it’s basically tweet after tweet from women overseas pointing out what a misogynistic shithole NZ is if our government and media condone what happened and the police didn’t intervene . Hard to disagree with them to be honest because I’m yet to see anyone in our media or government condemn what took place yesterday.
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Let’s call it like it is
They’re just a bunch of fluffybunnies, which is ironic seeing as they don’t have one
Perhaps that’s the first stage of transformation
The youth have their knickers in a twist about how people of my age - +55 and above - have and are continuing to destroy the planet
This is the shit they should be up in arms about ffs
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@MiketheSnow said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Let’s call it like it is
They’re just a bunch of fluffybunnies, which is ironic seeing as they don’t have one
Perhaps that’s the first stage of transformation
The youth have their knickers in a twist about how people of my age - +55 and above - have and are continuing to destroy the planet
This is the shit they should be up in arms about ffs
As well as the thuggish behaviour the selfishness of it gets me too, imagine what gay rights groups in countries where they have less rights than here think when they see this stuff . The wifi password community here is effectively giving the anti lbgt movements overseas ammunition to use against them
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@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Oh ffs , the absolute state of this
The old "violence is OK as long as it isn't physical" argument - as used by masked fascists and domestic abusers everywhere.
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Nobody wins here. Losers all around.
PP is her own worst enemy. It’s completely unfair to label her in with her neo nazi followers, give she has been very clear that is is no part of her politics.
Scariest part is how many genuinely think it’s a great day for NZ.
It’s closer to 1984 than many think.
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@MajorRage said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Nobody wins here. Losers all around.
I disagree. That small but vocal % of the population who believe they are on the right side of history and things like free speech, reasoned debate and civility, can't be allowed to get in the way of progress will be ecstatic - and emboldened by a belief that violence or threats brings results.
I wonder how the NZ government will react? Will Hipkins legislate for free speech like the UK did after Professor Kathleen Stock was hounded out of Oxford University by masked TG activists for saying trans people can't change biological sex?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorRage said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Nobody wins here. Losers all around.
I disagree. That small but vocal % of the population who believe they are on the right side of history and things like free speech, reasoned debate and civility, can't be allowed to get in the way of progress will be ecstatic - and emboldened by a belief that violence or threats brings results.
I wonder how the NZ government will react? Will Hipkins legislate for free speech like the UK did after Professor Kathleen Stock was hounded out of Oxford University by masked TG activists for saying trans people can't change biological sex?
They will do nothing . They’ll just keep quiet till it disappears out of the news cycle. Ffs these clowns are so desperate to appear in favour of “ the current thing” we actually have a former midwife as an mp who thinks men can give birth .
The next tweet under hers is from Shaleel Lal thanking her, he’s the creep who helped incite the thugs this weekend.
This isn’t the first time the government and their supporters have treated women like shit and given a pass by the media . Arderns simps were out in force when Charlotte Bellis had to go to the Taliban for help and she shed light on the other 50 plus pregnant women who were abandoned overseas . When Hipkins became pm the same people who abused and defamed her were out in force again despite him admitting he lied and acted illegally. The kids who were born overseas now have issues with getting citizenship after being illegally stuck overseas due to “ kindness “ and “empathy “ .
A couple more scenes from the anti women’s rights movement in Tehran …(checks notes) I mean Auckland on Saturday
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italicised text@booboo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@paremata that last video was actually in London.
Same vibe though.
Cheers , I’ve deleted it. The one where the old lady gets repeatedly punched in the face is not “ joyful and life affirming “ it’s disturbing.
An alternative view of the ‘angry’ protest crowd
The 'chaotic', 'ugly' scenes at the protest were closer to joyful and celebratory.
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@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
They will do nothing . They’ll just keep quiet till it disappears out of the news cycle. Ffs these clowns are so desperate to appear in favour of “ the current thing” we actually have a former midwife as an mp who thinks men can give birth .
Insanity.
By all means help people with gender dysphoria and ensuring they are protected from discrimination - that's the right ad moral thing to do. But you don't do that by peddling myths and pretending scientific facts aren't relevant and/or don't exist.
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@booboo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@paremata that last video was actually in London.
Same vibe though.
There's a conference in London this WE on Lesbian rights. It's being picketed and attendees intimidated by "trans activists" incensed that some of the speakers have said lesbian's can't have penises....
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@MajorRage said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Nobody wins here. Losers all around.
PP is her own worst enemy. It’s completely unfair to label her in with her neo nazi followers, give she has been very clear that is is no part of her politics.
Scariest part is how many genuinely think it’s a great day for NZ.
It’s closer to 1984 than many think.
I’m not sure she’s her own worst enemy, the Trans activists that want to attack her would take that title.
If anyone is still on the fence about her activism it’s worth reading this . I tried to find a more mainstream outlet but the Times is paywalled . The tl;dr version is that a trans woman was put in a women’s hospital ward , raped a woman, she went to the police and the hospital said she was lying because there were no men in the ward and went on for a year until the police got cctv footage
British Hospital Allegedly Denied Rape Claim Because Perpetrator Was Transgender | National Review
‘It has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that actually there was a male on the ward and yes this rape happened,’ said Emma Nicholson.
Hospital says patient wasn't raped because alleged attacker was transgender
The incident has drawn attention to the impact of self-ID in hospitals and other institutions like the police with Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne calling on Westministers Lords to scrap it.
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She’s her own worst enemy as she didn’t play it perfectly. That’s how sad it’s gotten.
There is a clear disparity between:
- True trans
- Blokes use dresses
- Activists.
She’s labeled anti trans because she got upset about number 2, without making it clear that number 1 is not her target.
Almost all anti trans activists are the same. Yet, they find themselves being fucked over.
NZ has followed, and pushed, the same.
The message is clearly “stop thinking NZ, we know best”.
Nineteen Eighty Four.
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Can you stop using that 'tr' word please? Personally I don't give a fuck however I know NZ hate speech laws are currently under review. The purpose of the review? To expand the awful law into more areas, specifically trans stuff
I fully expect the state to make a big deal of that word shortly
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@Duluth said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Can you stop using that 'tr' word please? Personally I don't give a fuck however I know NZ hate speech laws are currently under review. The purpose of the review? To expand the awful law into more areas, specifically trans stuff
I fully expect the state to make a big deal of that word shortly
Fair enough, will edit them out
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@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Those (edited) involved like Shaleel Lal backed up my impression that 10% of trans men are actually trans and the rest are basically narcissistic misogynistic bullies . The glee they showed while pushing apart the barriers and mobbing a tiny middle aged woman was actually quite disturbing to watch .
This, 100% this. Nothing about Shaleel is trans, he's a gay guy that has decided his pronouns are they/them because it feeds his narcissism. People like him are the reason there is going to be (and already is really) a real backlash against people with genuine gender dysphoria.
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@No-Quarter said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Those (edited) involved like Shaleel Lal backed up my impression that 10% of trans men are actually trans and the rest are basically narcissistic misogynistic bullies . The glee they showed while pushing apart the barriers and mobbing a tiny middle aged woman was actually quite disturbing to watch .
This, 100% this. Nothing about Shaleel is trans, he's a gay guy that has decided his pronouns are they/them because it feeds his narcissism. People like him are the reason there is going to be (and already is really) a real backlash against people with genuine gender dysphoria.
The witch trials of J K Rowling podcast is well worth listening to . They interview one of the more prominent trans activists who busts out the “ she’s putting my life in danger” line and then can’t actually say what Rowling said that was transphobic.
Never been interested in Harry Potter or any of her other works but huge respect to Rowling , to her this is no different to the religious nutters who came after her in the 90s and early 2000s .
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@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorRage said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
Nobody wins here. Losers all around.
I disagree. That small but vocal % of the population who believe they are on the right side of history and things like free speech, reasoned debate and civility, can't be allowed to get in the way of progress will be ecstatic - and emboldened by a belief that violence or threats brings results.
I wonder how the NZ government will react? Will Hipkins legislate for free speech like the UK did after Professor Kathleen Stock was hounded out of Oxford University by masked TG activists for saying trans people can't change biological sex?
They will do nothing . They’ll just keep quiet till it disappears out of the news cycle. Ffs these clowns are so desperate to appear in favour of “ the current thing” we actually have a former midwife as an mp who thinks men can give birth .
The next tweet under hers is from Shaleel Lal thanking her, he’s the creep who helped incite the thugs this weekend.
This isn’t the first time the government and their supporters have treated women like shit and given a pass by the media . Arderns simps were out in force when Charlotte Bellis had to go to the Taliban for help and she shed light on the other 50 plus pregnant women who were abandoned overseas . When Hipkins became pm the same people who abused and defamed her were out in force again despite him admitting he lied and acted illegally. The kids who were born overseas now have issues with getting citizenship after being illegally stuck overseas due to “ kindness “ and “empathy “ .
Punches like a girl though
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What for me is a particularly disturbing trend is that threats, violence and intimidation is perceived as "ok" (if not encouraged and justified) should it align with certain political beliefs/views.
No point of view, or morality justifies violence.
Ironically this trend of endorsing violence it mainly pushed by people who refer to themselves as "progressives".
If mankind has not evolved in thought and mind beyond beating someone you don't like with a club we have not "progressed" at all.
Ironically Orwell's vision of the future (being a jackboot kicking a human being in the face repeatedly) seems in this modern age to not be done by a nationalist in a uniform but to rather be done by a progressive in the name of diversity, inclusion and equality...
Of course were certainly not there yet - but the groundwork for it is being set nicely.
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Remember how every slightly negative comment directed at Arderns terrible leadership was rooted in misogyny and she ultimately quit because of NZs deep rooted issues with hating women?
I bet you could go on to pretty much any social media account of the dullards saying this snd they’d be cheering in what happened in the weekend .Anyway , this should be good for tourism
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@ploughboy said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
hope this works https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1639443651293220864
[mod edit - fixing the embed url]
Good God (I missed this yesterday)
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@booboo today I learnt the CIS is short for cis-gender...so a new label created, I assume from the transgender society for those just happy to carry the male/female gender they were 'assigned' at birth?
WTAF.
"Trans people are tired of being oppressed and discriminated. I am a prevention violence minister [sic]. I know who causes violence in the world, it is white cis men. That is white cis men who cause violence in the world. Trans are taonga. Trans women are women."
Cis, which is short for cis-gender, refers to someone who is the same gender now as what was assigned to that person when they were born.
Marama should absolutely resign, if it were a male that said soemthign like this, they'd be all over it.
) was actually in London.
