TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98)
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@Stargazer yeah pretty sure they are about 55-58% for both teams in these games. Even so the main point is those tough carries need to happen in middle of park and they just are not for us. We make a lot of metres out wide but teams will take that seem to be able to recover then put pressure on us in tight we’re a turnover occurs. We keep saying poor skills but it’s a broken record now for last cple years. Teams know they can put pressure on of forwards in attack and these teams have the upper hand in work rate.
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@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Well summarised
You saved me from having to explain this to Booboo
Explain what?
I'm not calling for his head. Just pointing out it was illegal.
Please see post above.
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@No-Quarter said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@taniwharugby said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@No-Quarter that was in his 2nd or 3rd AB game 10 months ago...
I'm not quite ready to write anyone off after last night, too many big players were off, our game plan isn't working
Yeah, but, fact is RM hasn't played many games in black since then so is still very inexperienced at this level. Carves up Super rugby but so far has struggled with the step up when starting.
He's done well off the bench providing some impact against tired defense; right now that's what I see his role as for the RWC.
Yes - this was just his third test start after Pumas and Japan - first outing against an elite team. A rumpty start with the charge-downs, but he got better as the game went on.
I don't know whether Hansen will stake his career-end on a rookie first five - but, in my opinion it's well worth giving it another try in one of the games against Oz and potentially the pool game against South Africa. At a minimum it will be an advantage if teams don't know what we're going to roll out against them.
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@Stargazer said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B They have to persist with RM at 10, if only to give him the experience he'll need in case BB goes down with an injury.
Sadly I think that is true. It doesn't fill me with confidence though and if Josh is going to Japan he probably needs a run as well.
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@Snowy be great if we could see a bit of a plan forming with player rotations, guess the one v Aus will shed some light.
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@taniwharugby said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
guess the one v Aus will shed some light.
One would hope so. It certainly isn't obvious at the moment but the selectors do have to play with the cards that they are dealt. Unfortunately bluffing isn't likely to win a RWC.
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@taniwharugby said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Snowy be great if we could see a bit of a plan forming with player rotations, guess the one v Aus will shed some light.
@taniwharugby said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Snowy be great if we could see a bit of a plan forming with player rotations, guess the one v Aus will shed some light.
To point out the obvious - they didn't take the Crusaders to Argentina and put out a "B"team there.
Hansen is cutting five guys this week and I think he will want to try to lock the Bled away ASAP, so we'll see pretty much what he thinks is the top combo in the first match versus Oz. It won't be too much different to this week - Cane and Ardie will be back in the 23, Beaudy will probably be back at first five, RM on the bench - and we'll probably need a replacement for Retallick.
Who's going to be cut? I reckon Moli and Aumua, two of Papali'i, Jacobson and Todd (just possibly Fifita), and one of Ennor or Reece.
Someone may get saved if they don't call up a specialist lock to cover Retallick, but I think they need to. Who will it be - I think they took Romano to Japan last year, but didn't use him.
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@Chris-B still not really giving any insights into what they are looking to achieve (as in RM-10, BB-15..1 off experiment vs our old foe, or a nod to the future...)
Sure the 1st test v Aus might show us where they are looking in terms of personell, but what about the game plan, and if they give a hint of thier best 15 v Aus, we then have a 2nd test v Aus and a test v Tonga to fine tune before meeting SA again...time is against us.
While I thnk they are still fine tuning, time is against us.
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@taniwharugby said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
time is against us.
I guess that is the problem with our draw at the RWC. One of our most important matches is the first one. We can't build into it like the cricket.
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Patty T has the potential to be a great ball carrying lock who could give us real go-forward and smash other forwards backwards.
He has shown glimpses of his destructive potential at test level - 2nd half against England in the rain a few years back and in the last part of the thriller we won in Brisbane.
He too often seems ponderous though. Shame, we really need a big grunter in the pack, particularly considering our starting props, Whitelock and Read are not destructive ball runners at all.
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@taniwharugby It's all a bit of guesswork, but I'm expecting to see Beaudy start at 10 for the first game vs Oz and Richie start the second (probably Beauden at 15).
If they're taking Josh Ioane to Japan then he'll probably only get time off the bench - maybe only against Samoa (maybe in Bled II).
I don't think we (or the Jaapies) will know who is our starting first five until the final Thursday. Won't actually be the end of the world (cup) if we lose that one.
Then we've got three games to do some more fine-tuning. Remember, last time we were still ringing the death-knell of our chances when we looked pretty shit against Georgia and Tonga, so I'm not panicking about anything just yet - except Retallick's shoulder.
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@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Patty T has the potential to be a great ball carrying lock who could give us real go-forward and smash other forwards backwards.
He has shown glimpses of his destructive potential at test level - 2nd half against England in the rain a few years back and in the last part of the thriller we won in Brisbane.
In gerenal he's a player that takes a few games to get into form. He's not a player that immediately plays well after a few weeks off.
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@Chris-B I'm not really panicking either, I am just struggling to see the bigger picture, unlike other years where at least I could sorta see what they were trying for.
Yeah losing to the Bokke in the opening game wont be the end, but will be our first pool loss ever, and doesnt bode well...
What worries me though, is our combinations, or lack thereof, clear to see vs Argentina and last night we have no combinations or cohesion, given we are likely to see more changes v Aus, it wont help that.
Taylor v Coles - this is almost a coin toss, guess you could say Coles is making the impact off the bench, but we know he can start
Props - MOody I think is safe, but FRanks effectiveness outside the scrum is starting to show (More)
Locks - no BBBR, has to be Scott, but its probably BBBRs grunt at scrumtime we wil miss most, I dont think he has been near his best elsewhere in BLack for a while now.
Loosies - IMO, the best 3 is clear (even if you think Read is out of form, he is still the best 8, or 6 if you pushed him there to accomodate Savea at 8 )
AS v TJP - reckon AS edge TJ last night, which is telling given TJ is supposed to be superior in the physicality and SA were certainly that.
RM v BB - well, it woudl seem clear BB will return
Midfield -
Back 3 - very interesting, Reiko not in very good form, BB an option, BFA not back to best...then?So IMO, we will have 1 change at lock (garanteed) 2 changes in the loose, halfback, 1st 5, I expect 1 in the mid-field, and 1 in the back 3...so by my count that will be 7 changes from last nights match that will push us close to our 1st 15.
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@nzzp said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@No-Quarter said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Right now Beauden is clearly our best 10 and 15.
If we play him at 15, we have to start a rookie at 10.
If we play him at 10, we start one of our most experienced players at 15.
... and our experienced 15 is coming back from a leg injury. Fitness and pace will come back as he gets more training time.
Jeepers, how many times do you have to see that not happen before you stop believing? Old guys just don't get their pace back during a season. At best he might over a long off-season get a tiny bit of it back, but between now and the Cup there is no chance he is going to get faster.
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@Chester-Draws said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@nzzp said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@No-Quarter said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Right now Beauden is clearly our best 10 and 15.
If we play him at 15, we have to start a rookie at 10.
If we play him at 10, we start one of our most experienced players at 15.
... and our experienced 15 is coming back from a leg injury. Fitness and pace will come back as he gets more training time.
Jeepers, how many times do you have to see that not happen before you stop believing? Old guys just don't get their pace back during a season.
I agree- but this is coming off an injury, so I'm hopeful.
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@taniwharugby Don't think we should worry in the slightest about the lack of cohesion - someone like Rieko probably hasn't played a game since the Blues got knocked out - maybe some club rugby? Even the Crusaders boys hadn't played for three weeks and were playing in new systems and new combinations.
I think it's barely worth questioning people like Read (especially), Franks and Ben Smith - if they're fit, they'll be playing - they're McCaw, Woodcock and Conrad Smith from 2015. Hansen loves experience and he's shown it over and over. When push comes to shove, he'll probably revert to Beauden at 10, even if he perhaps shouldn't (and we may all be on the Mo'unga bandwagon again a few weeks from now).
We discussed last year that - man for man - the current team simply isn't as good as the 2015 one. But, it is still good enough to win the RWC if it plays to its potential - though that might not be true without Retallick. He is the last person I wanted to lose.
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@Chris-B but we dont really have a McCaw, DC, Nonu or Conrad from 2015...
anyways, stop it, you are making me sound like I think its all doom and gloom!
I know they are pretty good at getting the boys firing at the right time, but to me at least in 2015 there were stil signs they were on the right path, right now, I think they are lost, and struggling to find the path...
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