Racism in NZ
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@Siam said in Racism in NZ:
Do you believe any race is inherently better or worse than another?
Looks at men's 100m field. Scratches head....
But I basically agree with what you're saying which is that judge people as individuals. Race shouldn't form part of the calculus.
I do find it odd though that if I do mention that there are, across populations, differences between races that I am a racist. It would amuse me to take a "Check your privilege" sign to the next 100m final.
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Can't speak for NZ as I've been out of the country for yonks, but it strikes me from what I've read and heard, there's a lot more open debate in NZ on this than in the UK - which strikes me as a positive thing.
Britain is an incredibly tolerant country but you get a strong, almost overriding, impression of politicians and media falling over themselves discovering "racist" incidents to prove how huge a problem "racist" white people are. Other race issues are seen to simply not exist or are covered up, as in Pakistani men grooming white kids, "to protect community relations".
One personal example of this stuff: my daughter being told more than once her name (Ngaire) was racist as it was cultural appropriation.
This shit is manna from heaven for the far-right racist groupings who are increasingly active and getting smart in putting their message across - see Tommy Robinson. Not for nothing did Tarrant reference the Rotherham sex abuse scandal.
I can only think that the more NZ can discuss this stuff, respectfully, but without fear of being shouted down, the better. Sunshine really is the best disinfectant
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@raznomore said in Racism in NZ:
This is not intended to divide. But it’s of interest to me to see how many non Caucasian ferners have been on the receiving end of racism. Also I wonder how many Caucasian ferners have been racially abused or profiled. I grew up a Samoan being abused Maori in my suburb so please do not think this is a white vs black situation.
I have a poly friend who makes a lot of money. Recently on 2 separate occasions when inquiring about buying a house he was asked by the realtor if he was an athlete. As if that was the only way he could have money. Passive racism.
I was only on the end of blatant racism one time from a Caucasian. I was about 20 leaving Wellington after clubbing. Me and 2 mates were near the NZ Post building right by the Rail station and 2 very distinctively bald headed guys came up to us and called us niggers. I’ll be honest they were big guys, older than us, even though we were big guys I felt threatened. One of them went to head butt me but I moved just in time and then a cop car drove past and these two ran off toward Lambton Quay. Never really saw any thing racist after that.
But from talking to friends over the weekend on messenger the amount of racist incidents my wider group of friends have been subjected to and recently is fucking worrying.
sorry mods just realised there was another thread
I'm very curious about this also, as my experience is that the racism in NZ is mostly the lighthearted, name-calling ("bloody coconuts", "stupid palagis" etc.), albeit it's been a while since I lived in NZ
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There are a few moments that stick out to me:
Maori and Poly's having a few skirmishes at Intermediate. Ended up with one boy being punched in the head so hard and so many times he had a seizure and was rushed to hospital. This all seemed to calm down during my college years.
Quite a few regarding Police. Usually with the use of nigger and black cu*t.
There were a few of us leaving a party once when a group of Poly's, who weren't at the party, started assaulting some of the people on the street (this was in Naenae so I hope it wasn't you Raz ). This left one guy with a broken jaw. The police turned up and the Poly's run off and gave the police some verbal abuse. The police gave it back by calling them fucking niggers. That was the first of at least half a dozen times I witnessed racism within the police. I'd heard about it from mates when growing up but I'd always been brought up believing the police were all 'good'.
Another time was when a couple of mates (one Maori and one Pakeha) were taking a piss up an alley way in Wellington. Cops spotted them and chased them. Maori guy was slower and got caught first. Cops then proceeded to call the Maori guy a black cut. White guy came back once his mate was caught and was told he could go on his way as they'd already caught the black cunt. They both ended up in the cells for a night.
One of my best mates all through primary and onwards became a cop in his early 20's. He wasn't a racist when he joined but after a couple of years in the police he became quite racist towards Maori, Poly's and Somali's. Thankfully he ended up going full circle and ended up leaving the police after 12 odd years due to the racist behaviours. He couldn't see it changing as the police didn't have a culture of treating the people who pointed it out kindly. Snitches were never taken seriously and were ostracised. Bear in mind this may not apply to all Police as I'm sure each station is different (hopefully). I definitely wasn't surprised when that report came out a few years back that the NZ Police had a racism problem (though I don't think they called it racism).
Had a few teachers who were quite racist. From the ones who refused to pronounce non english names correctly to one who would start each year (maths teacher) who like to point out that Maori were savages until the English turned up and had a quote on his wall about speaking making us human and the written word making us civilised (something like that).
Playing colts rugby in Wellington there was a Maori only team (I can't even remember who they represented) and their games generally ended in huge fights. Our game against them did and it was due to their verbal abuse about the white players on our team (there was only about 3 of them).
I've come across racism heaps in life but I definitely come across it less now. I've got no idea if that's because there is less of it, or as you get older it's easier to distance yourself from it.
Looking back the racism I saw from teachers and the police does stick out more. Probably due to the fact that these are the people you would hope aren't like that (though it doesn't excuse the other stuff).
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Geez that's some pretty appalling stuff there.
I grew up in Wellington & Lower Hutt in the '70's (nr Waiwhetu Marae) and can honestly say I never heard any racist stuff between Maori, Pakaha or Pasifika. There was loads of banter and taking the piss out of of each other but never any vicious n.....r stuff. The nearest was when daughter of friend's of my parents married a Fijian and while there was lots of genuine concern about cultural differences, there was no overt racism and he was warmly welcomed into the family.
I've experienced real, nasty racism in the UK . Some knuckle-draggers taking exception to a maori member of our ex-pat group having a pakeha GF and my English (then) wife being racially abused in Scotland a few years back, but nothing like that in NZ
I hope what you describe is a bit of a blip due to the big cultural and demographic changes in NZ - either way, it is worrying and needs to be challenged
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@dK said in Racism in NZ:
Ahhh the old tactic of calling anyone who disputes bullshit allegations defensive. So you have to agree either way.
Read the article thought it was crap.... oh look he had that covered In point 1... anyone who disagrees proves him right.
Racism is racism despite whatever sophistry you use and how many times you call someone defensive for rejecting it.The whole article is of itself complete;y racist, the assertion that such a thing as white privilege is a thing is racist. Privilege exists, but it is not based on skin color, and assigning privilege based on an immutable trait is racism. Privilege is portrayed as a bad thing as it is really 'advantage without merit.'
My basic rule of thumb is that when anyone assigns a negative trait to a group of people base don immutable race trait that is racism. Increasingly articles like this which @dK felt comfortable posting crosses that line. Anyone who thinks that divisions, historical wrongs and angst will be helped by being more active in assigning people negative traits or positions by virtue of skin colour is on the wrong side of the anti racism fight.There are people without privilege and with privilege across all races. Most strongly linked to things like family stability and income. Not your skin pigmentation. I have white guys working for me who are not privileged in any way.. then look at Marama Fox. I cannot believe we are further away now than we were 10 years ago towards judging everyone on their character rather than their skin colour. Divisions are only getting deeper, and until racist phrases like 'whiteness' are condemned it will only get worse.
From article
If racism is about the maintenance and perpetuation of the superiority of one racial group over another, it’s illogical to talk about racism in favour of Māori. Māori haven’t held a position of underlying economic or social superiority in New Zealand since European arrival, and therefore can’t be said to have maintained or perpetuated any superiority.And this is where he is a fluffybunny. Because that is not a valid definition of racism, it is the new far left definition. A Maori can be racist towards an Indian despite neither having this suppose underlying economic or social superiority over the other.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Racism in NZ:
This shit is manna from heaven for the far-right racist groupings who are increasingly active and getting smart in putting their message across - see Tommy Robinson. Not for nothing did Tarrant reference the Rotherham sex abuse scandal.
Sorry what??
Can you show some examples of Tommy Robinson being racist? Because it just sounds like you have been drinking the cool aid smear.
Tarrant mentioned lots of people and events, including China, are Chinese people also to blame. -
It's coming up 20 years since I lived there, so most of my comments are (hopefully) outdated now, but some observations from this white fella.... (side note .. Razz specifically asked for observations from our more heavily melanin friends .. but a lot of white people have responded ... i think some woke people think of that as racist).
Anyway, I'm going to be blatantly honest. I was racist when I left NZ. Not in a derogatory way towards your average Maori / Poly about everything, but I had more than enough observations to conclude, in many situations (all around sport or alcohol), they were violent people. School rugby against the more maori clubs in the bay always ended in violence. I played probably 50 games as a schoolboy, and 3 of them were called off. All against the same team, which was 100% Maori. When walking home from school, you crossed the road if a group of Maori/Poly boys were walking towards you. As I got older and started to drink (more than) my share of bevvies I would see loads of fights in town. I regularly went out in Hamilton, Tauranga, Auckland and less occasionally Palmie. I saw fights, king-hits, people jumped from behind etc on an at least bi-monthly basis. On most occasions, the perpetrators were Maori/Poly.
I'm not saying White people were innocent, not at all. But from my observations, I came to a natural conclusion to be much more cautious around that demographic. I never went to Manukau / Otara when I lived in Akl as I viewed it as not safe. I had a few Poly boys in my group of friends, who pretty much so held the same views as me.
Therefore, I must conclude,I was racist.
Now, to be clear, I was never any sort of flag waving moron, and I worked with plenty of Maori/Poly and got on great with all of them. I was never prejudiced in that I wouldn't employ them, or I'd actively choose white people or anything. Not that level.
As for now ... well, I'm less bothered honestly. I don't find myself in those situations when in NZ so hard to observe anything. I do have an Asian wife now though, so have found myself in some situations where I think people were being casually racist, but then perhaps I was being overly sensitive. Or naive . I dunno.
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@MajorRage said in Racism in NZ:
I'm not saying White people were innocent, not at all. But from my observations, I came to a natural conclusion to be much more cautious around that demographic. I never went to Manukau / Otara when I lived in Akl as I viewed it as not safe. I had a few Poly boys in my group of friends, who pretty much so held the same views as me.
Therefore, I must conclude,I was racist.
Sorry but can you explain how that makes you racist?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Racism in NZ:
@MajorRage said in Racism in NZ:
I'm not saying White people were innocent, not at all. But from my observations, I came to a natural conclusion to be much more cautious around that demographic. I never went to Manukau / Otara when I lived in Akl as I viewed it as not safe. I had a few Poly boys in my group of friends, who pretty much so held the same views as me.
Therefore, I must conclude,I was racist.
Sorry but can you explain how that makes you racist?
Yeah I don’t see how that is racist.
Did you mean mean in the current PC climate where everything is offensive and that saying that everything is offensive is stereotyping and therefore being offensive..ironic type of way?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Racism in NZ:
Can you show some examples of Tommy Robinson being racist? Because it just sounds like you have been drinking the cool aid smear.
Looks like The Sun - hardly a right-on, politically correct newspaper - been drinking cool-aid too.
In the video "He calls out to the man and asks: “Bro, do you know where this pub is? I’ve got a name of a pub - can I get a taxi? Little paki that drives a car.”
"In another video he drunkenly sings that he is “king of the whole Islam race”.
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Saying a certain racial group appears to have a specific problem - e.g Sth Asian taxi drivers grooming white girls isn't racist - it's fact or informed opinion. Ditto that the US south has or had a problem with white supremacists, some maori communities have a problem with domestic violence or some white communities don't look after older people well enough.
Saying that Sth Asian taxi drivers can't be trusted with white female passengers or white people from the US south can't be trusted to treat black people fairly is racist. As is using deliberately offensive terms like n*****s, h... kies or p.kis.
Too many social justice warriors and "progressives" confuse the two things IMHO.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Racism in NZ:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Racism in NZ:
Can you show some examples of Tommy Robinson being racist? Because it just sounds like you have been drinking the cool aid smear.
Looks like The Sun - hardly a right-on, politically correct newspaper - been drinking cool-aid too.
In the video "He calls out to the man and asks: “Bro, do you know where this pub is? I’ve got a name of a pub - can I get a taxi? Little paki that drives a car.”
"In another video he drunkenly sings that he is “king of the whole Islam race”.
I think the first comment is racist, although I think calling someone a paki one time make you eligible for what you said.
As for the second, that isnt racist. Arguably bigoted /obnoxious though. -
I worked with a Racist White Guy on a dairy farm on the outskirts of Hamilton. When a group of Asian tourists died in a van crash he said it was a good thing to have less of them. At Friday night drinks he showed NAZI emblems on his phone. He said he was going into town on Saturday night to get into fights with Maoris.
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@mikedogz said in Racism in NZ:
I worked with a Racist White Guy on a dairy farm on the outskirts of Hamilton. When a group of Asian tourists died in a van crash he said it was a good thing to have less of them. At Friday night drinks he showed NAZI emblems on his phone. He said he was going into town on Saturday night to get into fights with Maoris.
Jesus, that's like another world. I don't come across fuckers like that
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It's sometimes worth considering where racism comes from and although it might feel heroic screaming at someone and branding them a racist that maybe that isn't going to do anything to fix the problem.
A mate of mine in London lived with a white Zimbabwean guy and this guy just hated black people. I got filled in on the background however a few years previous his father and maybe uncle were murdered as part of Mugabes plan to remove white farm owners.
It doesn't make his racism right but it does make it pretty damn understandable if you and your family had been through something like that.
Incidentally he found Jesus a couple years back joined a very multicultural church and those hateful racist days are all very far behind him. It looks like compassion from those who he thought he hated made a pretty huge difference here.
Well worth watching this Netflix doco about Daryl Davis a black man who made friends with the KKK on how to beat racism.