NH Ditch Junior rep sides
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Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
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@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
Football at junior level is fucking horrendous. I am involved quite a bit in junior sport and football sucks donkey balls. It is ludicrously elitist and segregated and turns pleasant mild kids into raging ego maniacs with superiority complexes.
I think the biggest issue is that football is swamped with 'academies' that are profit driven, and they demand year round expensive training so your little Tarquin doesnt fall behind. It is a horrendous set up. The dont tell kids not to play other sports, but they are year around and make it clear that if your kid doesnt make the right choices he will never make 'it'.
I loathe junior soccer with a passion, even the club scene is ugly with stringent grading trials, kids who make it, kids who dont and the parents who are fucking nightmares full of ego.
Both my boy and girl played rugby, and I was well pleased, but they both took after me and had no real talent in the sport, so have dropped out. My girl is going to stick with tennis and try flippa ball.. which I think is water polo? Seems fun.
My boy is in rep squads for tennis and cricket, which sucks as they are both summer sports, but we think doing both is important as it gives variation, and with rep tennis he just gets to have more free coaching, as rep cricket is just fun stuff, he gets to go play in some tournament, which we view as more of a cricket holiday than anything serious. The brutal reality is that the vast majority arent going to make 'it'.I should also add that Tennis is also horrendous for kids who over train at a young age.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
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Had bad experiences with junior soccer too and pulled my kid from it.
He came from rugby and liked the idea of being the goalie, which looking back was a mistake on my part. Took a bit of abuse from his own team from anything he let in (he was actually pretty brave and diving at feet, etc).
Had to get the coach to sort the team out and point out they had to get past all you useless fucks before getting to the goalie, but it didn't really improve much.
Hockey seems better organised and friendlier in terms of parent dickheadness, he's been enjoying that.
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@Kirwan said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Had bad experiences with junior soccer too and pulled my kid from it.
He came from rugby and liked the idea of being the goalie, which looking back was a mistake on my part. Took a bit of abuse from his own team from anything he let in (he was actually pretty brave and diving at feet, etc).
Had to get the coach to sort the team out and point out they had to get past all you useless fucks before getting to the goalie, but it didn't really improve much.
Hockey seems better organised and friendlier in terms of parent dickheadness, he's been enjoying that.
Sympathise with this a lot. My memories of coaching junior football a decade or so back was of parents and coaches so focused on goals they were happy for their team to just hoof the ball forward to their fast player, over and over again. Lollies/$$ for goals scored, no coaching of goalkeeping, no recognition of good ball movement, stringing passes together, good defensive work.
And those coaches that did try to actually coach football inevitably copped aggression from Shane's mum and dad for not having a system that allows him to pad his goal-scoring average. Witnessed senior club coaches pressuring new coaches to play only their "best" players and leave the weaker kids on the sideline for a few minutes in trash time. The same people lamented the drop in player participation from junior into senior ranks and couldn't figure out what was going on.
When regulations were adjusted to try and encourage actual football (e.g. limiting the goalie to kicking off the deck and not out of hand), there were plenty of coaches happy to ignore that because "that's not how we play". And when NZ football brought in their structured junior programme, designed to integrate skills development with actual games on a Saturday morning, you'd have thought they'd just proposed death camps for children - such was the measured response from many parents.
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I'm not sure why soccer is copping it here, when i have seen exactly the same think in junior rugby, to the exact same extent. Parents have a lot to answer for.
I quit junior rugby in my teens because i was small, and pretty shit, and that absolutely did not fly with how rugby is done in NZ, when winning is absolutely everything, even at 13 years old. I started again at uni, when there was a place to develop your play without pressure. Turns out i could play a bit, just needed some guidance.
I am good friends with a guy involved intimately with these moves, and his explanations have definitely changed my opinion of them, and made me look at how i view my sons' sports. I think have the right idea, but it's not a bad thing to look at the messages you are sending every so often.
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@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
I'm not sure why soccer is copping it here, when i have seen exactly the same think in junior rugby, to the exact same extent. Parents have a lot to answer for.
I quit junior rugby in my teens because i was small, and pretty shit, and that absolutely did not fly with how rugby is done in NZ, when winning is absolutely everything, even at 13 years old. I started again at uni, when there was a place to develop your play without pressure. Turns out i could play a bit, just needed some guidance.
I am good friends with a guy involved intimately with these moves, and his explanations have definitely changed my opinion of them, and made me look at how i view my sons' sports. I think have the right idea, but it's not a bad thing to look at the messages you are sending every so often.
I think soccer is copping it as clubs/parents and academies are going in exactly the opposite direction to what is required for fun participation. Rugby in NZ is actually trying really hard to make it about participation. We dont have year round rugby academies for primary school kids that charge a fortune, we dont have trial and grading games at primary school level in rugby, if a club has 2 teams they just try and merge the kids together.
I actually think football NZ is on board with a more positive sport. But it seems like it has a really hard road to hike with parents, some clubs and for profit academies -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
I'm not sure why soccer is copping it here, when i have seen exactly the same think in junior rugby, to the exact same extent. Parents have a lot to answer for.
I quit junior rugby in my teens because i was small, and pretty shit, and that absolutely did not fly with how rugby is done in NZ, when winning is absolutely everything, even at 13 years old. I started again at uni, when there was a place to develop your play without pressure. Turns out i could play a bit, just needed some guidance.
I am good friends with a guy involved intimately with these moves, and his explanations have definitely changed my opinion of them, and made me look at how i view my sons' sports. I think have the right idea, but it's not a bad thing to look at the messages you are sending every so often.
I think soccer is copping it as clubs/parents and academies are going in exactly the opposite direction to what is required for fun participation. Rugby in NZ is actually trying really hard to make it about participation. We dont have year round rugby academies for primary school kids that charge a fortune, we dont have trial and grading games at primary school level in rugby, if a club has 2 teams they just try and merge the kids together.
I actually think football NZ is on board with a more positive sport. But it seems like it has a really hard road to hike with parents, some clubs and for profit academiesthat seems fair, and i guess i am not in that system, so shouldn't really comment
My kids just participated in one of those "for profit academies". It was their choice, and both just wanted to learn some new skills. And it really helped the eldest, i could see immediate changes to the way he plays (example, he suddenly has a left foot shot). They are not all evil.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
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@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.Because it's a chicks sport.....
Seriously though, I had no idea they were doing that in schools. Is it as a stand alone sport or just to cheerlead at big sports days (Like Rugby finals etc)
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.that doesn't sound much different to dancing. i thank the lord every day that i had boys. two close friends have mutliple daughters who dance, and their life is a fucking nightmare. And all the shit in this thread about kids' sport, goes double for dancing. The time required is out of control, and it consumes everyone in teh family's lives.
The bit i don't get is, for all that, one day in the near future, it will just stop. And all that time taken as a kid will be for naught.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby in NZ is actually trying really hard to make it about participation. We dont have year round rugby academies for primary school kids that charge a fortune, we dont have trial and grading games at primary school level in rugby, if a club has 2 teams they just try and merge the kids together.
Yeah in my experience Rugby has been leading the way for years now in trying to tidy up the parents behaviour which will help the kids...obviously doesnt stop some of the numpties out there.
When coaching kids, it is very much about making it fun, but trying to paint losing as fun will get you no where, kids arent stupid.
Even when my boys team was 5/6 years old, and no one is supposed to keep score, the kids knew the score.
While keeping the participation aspect as key, teaching the kids how to be both good winners and losers is a huge life lesson.
As to removing the rep side of things, I'm a skeptic this will do much, I'm the parent of a boy who is unlikely to ever make a rep side, he knows he is unlikely to make a rep side, that aint the reason he plays, and that wont be the reason he does not play if he chooses not to this year.
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@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.Because it's a chicks sport.....
Seriously though, I had no idea they were doing that in schools. Is it as a stand alone sport or just to cheerlead at big sports days (Like Rugby finals etc)
It is a standalone sport, pretty horrendous one IMO
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@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.that doesn't sound much different to dancing. i thank the lord every day that i had boys. two close friends have mutliple daughters who dance, and their life is a fucking nightmare. And all the shit in this thread about kids' sport, goes double for dancing. The time required is out of control, and it consumes everyone in teh family's lives.
The bit i don't get is, for all that, one day in the near future, it will just stop. And all that time taken as a kid will be for naught.
My niece was an awesome dancer, did it for years .... then she went to university. But at least it is a sport that she can go back to in later life and compete... oh wait...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.that doesn't sound much different to dancing. i thank the lord every day that i had boys. two close friends have mutliple daughters who dance, and their life is a fucking nightmare. And all the shit in this thread about kids' sport, goes double for dancing. The time required is out of control, and it consumes everyone in teh family's lives.
The bit i don't get is, for all that, one day in the near future, it will just stop. And all that time taken as a kid will be for naught.
My niece was an awesome dancer, did it for years .... then she went to university. But at least it is a sport that she can go back to in later life and compete... oh wait...
astounding isn't it?
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@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.that doesn't sound much different to dancing. i thank the lord every day that i had boys. two close friends have mutliple daughters who dance, and their life is a fucking nightmare. And all the shit in this thread about kids' sport, goes double for dancing. The time required is out of control, and it consumes everyone in teh family's lives.
The bit i don't get is, for all that, one day in the near future, it will just stop. And all that time taken as a kid will be for naught.
Reflecting on this comment ...
... I played sport as competitively as I could, which wasn't very. But post school, way beyond when I was never good enough to make rep teams, I continued playing rugby and cricket to be part of a team, and have a social outlet. I gave up competitive (club) rugby in my late 20s due to a bad back, but took it up again in my late 30s, and was able to play until my mid 40s.
Not sure you could get that with dancing as a competitive pastime? Ball room dancing maybe?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.that doesn't sound much different to dancing. i thank the lord every day that i had boys. two close friends have mutliple daughters who dance, and their life is a fucking nightmare. And all the shit in this thread about kids' sport, goes double for dancing. The time required is out of control, and it consumes everyone in teh family's lives.
The bit i don't get is, for all that, one day in the near future, it will just stop. And all that time taken as a kid will be for naught.
My niece was an awesome dancer, did it for years .... then she went to university. But at least it is a sport that she can go back to in later life and compete... oh wait...
I've done a booboo ... read the thread.
Was my immediate reaction as I typed out in previous post.
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@booboo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
I've done a booboo ... read the thread.
I'm not quite sure how to put this politely but there is a recurring theme here. Not going to comment on flat learning curves or suchlike (just messing with you, it amuses me).
To make a Booboo used to mean making a mistake, now it means not reading something before commenting. I prefer the latter.
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