Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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Anyone got an aspirin?
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nzzp the Irish turned down easy kickable penalties in the first half to go for the line. They were extremely confident in their defence stopping the ABs at the line, or chasing down any breaks the ABs made. Their set piece was working - though their scrum wasn't as dominant as everyone thinks - besides a couple of early shoves where Karl got stood up, the ABs held their own.
I thought it looked a bit suspicious but too far away for good view. I have great confidence though that Barnes doesn't know his Rrrs from his elbow at scrumtime.
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Without reading the whole thread I really dislike this idea that we are "keeping the powder dry' for the RWC. It just shits all over the All Blacks legacy. Like really? Another historic loss to Ireland because we want to keep our winning game plan up our sleeve? Fuck that shit, the All Blacks should be playing every game like it's a RWC final - win at all costs. I was really proud of our record against teams like Ireland. These losses really hurt.
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@no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Without reading the whole thread I really dislike this idea that we are "keeping the powder dry' for the RWC. It just shits all over the All Blacks legacy. Like really? Another historic loss to Ireland because we want to keep our winning game plan up our sleeve? Fuck that shit, the All Blacks should be playing every game like it's a RWC final - win at all costs. I was really proud of our record against teams like Ireland. These losses really hurt.
yeah, but
Ireland have been seriously good for some time. They should have beaten us in Christchurch a few years ago. They should have beaten us in Dublin in 13. They did beat us in Chicago.
Look, I hate losing as much as the next guy, but I'm more tolerant of losing to a well coached team that plays some rugby and is disciplined. Ireland did that - they got better, took themselves to another level, and play a gameplan that few teams have the discipline and structure to pull off.
As for keeping the powder dry, I hope that Hansen has a plan to unlock the rush that we can dish out next year. If we don't, we're farked. Also: those boys out there today looked tired. Next year the load on them will be a lot less; probably a B side to SA, and not a lot of travel during the pre world cup warmup
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@no-quarter yeah exactly how I feel. I think this test was a lot about restoring our (my) perceived (probably arrogantly) order of things. This loss really hurt a massive chunk of fans I reckon (hi @Snowy), surely we can't be that fucked that we can't possibly put some up the sleeve shit together to keep us out in front and keep a cherished legacy. Someone asked about keeping our lossless record or getting a world cup, I'd easily take the former (although to be fair that's probably coloured by the last 8 years).
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@bones also, as we said for years, you can rack up world cups relatively quickly. Records, on the other hand, take decades to put together. Our outstanding historic record is now coupled with 3 world cups, and suddenly we look (or certainly looked!) dominant.
That said, I'm in the 'good not great' AB side -- and the NH sides have picked up their games massively. Going to be tasty next year
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@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Agreed. Crotty's (and Goodhue's) defence kept us in this game at times
Even when Goodhue missed a tackle he didn't. How he hung on to that blokes shirt, goodness knows?
I am hoping we have seen the end of SBW and the shirt term future is with Crotty and Goodhue.
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@hooroo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Agreed. Crotty's (and Goodhue's) defence kept us in this game at times
Even when Goodhue missed a tackle he didn't. How he hung on to that blokes shirt, goodness knows?
I am hoping we have seen the end of SBW and the shirt term future is with Crotty and Goodhue.
You are obsessed.
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@hooroo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I am hoping we have seen the end of SBW and the shirt term future is with Crotty and Goodhue.
That looks the safest combo for RWC2019. Still think ALB could do with more game time.
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@no-quarter the powder dry suggestion only comes about as an explanation for why the team didn't try anything really of substance attack wise.
It's for sure shit but apart that explanation what do we have to explain some fucken insipid attack and passive, for the most part, defence.It's not a yyayyy we're keeping things up our sleeves, but, more a:
Well, how to explain that shit showing? -
@nzzp said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Look, I hate losing as much as the next guy, but I'm more tolerant of losing to a well coached team that plays some rugby and is disciplined. Ireland did that - they got better, took themselves to another level, and play a gameplan that few teams have the discipline and structure to pull off.
Fair point. I'm not pissed off when we lose to a better team.
I AM pissed off when we make tons of stupid mistakes, give away dumb penalties, don't think on our feet, panic and generally play like shit - and then lose.
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@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nzzp said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Look, I hate losing as much as the next guy, but I'm more tolerant of losing to a well coached team that plays some rugby and is disciplined. Ireland did that - they got better, took themselves to another level, and play a gameplan that few teams have the discipline and structure to pull off.
Fair point. I'm not pissed off when we lose to a better team.
I AM pissed off when we make tons of stupid mistakes, give away dumb penalties, don't think on our feet, panic and generally play like shit - and then lose.
I'm ok with that having happened in this match.
We have been so dominant for so long that we needed that as I think we have forgotten how to play under pressure. I'm likely wrong but the last match like that was the 8-7 2011 Final.
It will highlight that we need to be able to work under pressure. Keep executing the simple stuff well before we try and cut loose.
To me, this particular loss has come at the perfect time and I also feel they kept kicking the ball away to make sure we have tricks in the book for next year.
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Hope you're right. I was happy with the England win as they were generally composed after absorbing the pressure for 20 minutes and toughed it out - just the sort of game they needed. They were the opposite last nite.
Not too sure I buy into the "keeping the powder dry" argument, but much better they play badly and lose now rather than in RWC2019. I still feel the scars of Cardiff in '07....
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this WAS the big game. this WAS the game you keep your powder dry for.
the reality is that we aren't doing that, it's just wishful thinking from fans to excuse us playing like shit, which frankly we've been doing for quite a while now - our servings of shit have regularly been papered over by bits of individual brilliance getting us out of jail when we've been dominated all day, and a shit-hot lineout. the lineout saved us last week against the poms, but wasn't quite enough this week. we dropped the miracle balls that would have won the game this week. but both weeks, and against the saffas, we have been pretty thoroughly dominated this year.we kick way too much ball away, and badly. the opposition give us scraps, we finally get the damn ball, and these primadonna fuckwits immediately put boot to ball in low percentage plays. then they laugh about it at half-time.
we get a penalty advantage and BB takes a fucking drop kick. the potatoes get a penalty advantage and they - jonny fucking sexton - try to score a try. we are fucking dumb. we kick a penalty to give us a chance of a draw. a fucking draw. the all blacks. playing for a draw and kicking drop goals under penalty advantage. fuck my days what a fucking disgrace.
all it takes is an off-day for a couple of guys when our tactics are mud and we are so reliant on individual brilliance. sam whitelock, a great player - giving away dumb penalties. BBR, a great player - dumb penalties, terrible handling - his worst game i can remember. it's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water, but when guys like that don't perform, it does show the glaring deficiencies in other areas.
we are dumb. we still can't cope with a good rush defence. we haven't really been able to since the 90s when france used it to beat us. our defensive line speed was utter shit - so the potatoes made ground all day and had momentum. their line speed was really good, and there seems not to be a single fucker out there who has the wits to think, 'oh you know, with all this fanning out and quick line speed, we could either pick and go a few times or throw it behind the line to get around the rush'. barely a pick and go all game, and it was only in desperation when chasing the game that we threw in some depth to get around the rush - which promptly worked - except then when we made breaks, we were so totally lacking in composure that we forced dumb shit low percentage passes, or kicked the damn fucking ball away yet again. pack of fucking morons.
barnes is still a shit ref, inconsistent and doesn't seem to understand when a ruck forms. he had nothing to do with the loss however.
to the players:
karl T got a bit of a rough ride, but not as bad as some are making out. 2 scrums went badly, and 1 barnes should have reset. why barnes didn't blow their scrum when we were dominant i don't know. franks was solid, as was taylor, and all the replacements were good too. poor old ofa showed great hands to hold that piece of shit perenara pass - but when you have to catch that slop you're always going to get barrelled and struggle to win the ruck.
BBR his worst, and whitelock pretty poor too by his standards. scott barrett played well, was our best lock, but was playing out of position which fucks our forward balance.
squire was okay before injury, ardie at least tried hard, and read was rank. dropped everything, hasn't run hard into contact in about 3 years, and is a shitty captain. the way the irish were playing, and the way barnes was reffing, the player in our 23 most suited to that game was matt todd. bit disappointed he didn't manage to win it for us in his 3 FUCKING MINUTES YOU MORONS.
aaron smith's kicking is nowhere near as accurate as it was against the lions. he is still so much better than perenara -because he can actually pass - but if we don't have the brains to use smith's speed to get around the rush then he's wasted, and why not use a bigger running halfback.
BB. well it's pretty fucking limiting when your 10's weakest skill is his passing. also dumb. also doesn't appear to care a great deal. also thinks wasting try-scoring opportunities with drop-goals is a good idea, and funny. can run, can catch a high ball.
crotty and goodhue were both really pretty good given the shit they were served up. 20-something touches vs 40-something for the irish midfield wasn't it?
ben smith no ball. can run.
rieko no ball. no composure. can run.
mckenzie, not bad, but we are wasting ben smith on the wing.to ireland: well bloody played, a good plan, well executed. you knew exactly what we were going to do, because we do it all the time (keeping our powder dry hahaha fuck me) . we box kick and put up high balls. you dealt with that easily. you know that if you rush, we will chip. you covered that easily then kept the ball. you knew that we throw our ruck ball to forwards one or two off the ruck - you got up quick on them and we never made the gain line.
great fire and commitment from all on the park, and an inspirational and thoroughly deserved victory, which i could really have done without watching.rant over. as you were everyone.
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@reprobate definitely not an excuse but I totally agree with you about Barnes,he wasted no time penalising us when we were beaten on the hit at scrum time but when we had the dominant scrum who could not seem to find fault with the Irish scrum..
I am wondering if it was a focus thing at scrumtime,because we did come back at them.
The one decision that I am still scratching my head about is when one of our players was not so much taken in the air,but was clearly interfered with be he came to ground which was a yellow card every day of the week..
On saying all that you want your players to be at their best and we were way off..
Even though Ireland won,we were still there or there abouts after a very long season. -
I think the worst non yellow card call was when Whitelock deliberately slapped the ball forward whilst lying on the ground in an offside position early in the match.
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@sammyc said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I think the worst non yellow card call was when Whitelock deliberately slapped the ball forward whilst lying on the ground in an offside position early in the match.
hell yeah! Dumb play - at the pub we weren't sure if he touched it or not; someone with a higher definition screen can probably comment, but looked a cynical straight yellow all day if he touched it.
Also, I like the refs not buying into halfbacks falling all over players on the ground. It's stupid, cynical and everyone has been doing it - but if the ref ignores it, then people get on with playing the game
