Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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I guess some consolation is that despite being outmuscled, outplayed and outcoached and the questionable tactics and errors, the difference was that freakish try.
It's disappointing, but no reason to shit the bed. They looked good to storm home in the last 20 but seemed to panic.
Ireland's commitment and heart were astonishing, but how many games can they do that for? They could win a RWC with a performance like that, but would they have enough in the tank to do that for 3 games straight? Will be interesting to see. Astonishing physicality.
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@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I really don't believe Barrett is the issue. I think it lies with who is around him.
Good point. Carter & Cruden had stability outside them - almost always Nonu - plus a firing on all cylinders Aaron Smith,
BB had SBW, Crotty, ALB, Laumape - almost like a revolving door - and a strangely out-of-form Smith
Carter and Cruden are completely different styled 10s to Barrett. Barrett relies on individual brilliance more than Carter and Cruden did.
I always think about what Barrett will be like as a 10 when he loses his pace - it's not a pretty thought.
Yet today and vs England, I think Barrett played a bit more traditionally. I think hes learnt a few lessons, and just needs to find that balance.
I don't think we were any better or worse with Mounga on today, some say more organised, but its not like Richie was suddenly the most dangerous player on the park.
We did look better at the back however, BB gobbled up any kicks that came his way. -
@raznomore said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I can not understand the selection of Mckenzie ahead of Smith other than future proofing.
DMac should be used as super-sub and as cover for 15/10 until his wrinkles get ironed out. He way too good a player not to be in the 23.
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@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Pretty simple for me, we lost this in the forwards. Get more direct, go up the guts and win the physical battle before we go wide
And this looks something like our best gameplan - again, check the first test vs BIL.
For me its always been our best game plan. Monster the opposition up front and in defence, control the breakdown and the set piece, let the backs seal the deal. IIRC we played that way in the 2015 final too. We weren't able to do any of that tonight and I think much of that was attitude and mindset. Just got to man up
Can't upvote this enough. I think we know the template. And I just hope we bring it out for the games that count - which to be honest - was this game FFS. I think we made an error in strategy today.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
They looked good to storm home in the last 20 but seemed to panic.
The ability to think under pressure and NOT panic seems to be quite fragile at the moment. It may or may not be a one-off but it's a bit worrying
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@canefan yep, actually make them commit numbers to the rucks, rather than 1s or 2s and leaving the rest to smash our backs.
Quick fast ball up the middle channels is our bread and butter, but we prefer the let the opposition choose the bread the way we give them the ball back.
I know playing without the ball has been a tactic, but when the other team is capable of keeping it for multiple phases it makes that play redundant.
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@raznomore said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Great stuff Ireland. Played outstanding rugby and justly got the result. They are the bench mark. For now.
Read is old.
Box kicks suck and just turn over possession.
Ben Smith is the worlds best full back but lets play him on the wing..
Mckenzie is just above Jordie Barrett in suitability to test rugby...near enough isn't good
We seriously miss Cane and Id play both him and Ardie if the former wasnt injured.
Aaron Smith is not currently our best option. And has not been for a while.
Moody's absence is clearly a proplem.
The best midfielder we have didnt come on until 3 1/4s of the game was gone.
And Beuden Barrett is not a player deserving of a world player of the year nod. We were decidedly better organised once Mounga came on.I am not panicking and saying throw the baby out with the bathwater. But Read looks like 2019 might be a bridge too far. He needs one hell of an off season.
We need to stop using the box kick like its a high percentage play. It's fucking not anymore. We are simply giving the ball back to teams who are expecting the box kick now. We do not have a monopoly on aerial kick reception but we put up ineffectual kicks like we think we do.
I can not understand the selection of Mckenzie ahead of Smith other than future proofing. Mckenzie is often out of position on kick reception and he drops them at a fair clip. Mckenzie is an amazing player but he is not better than Smith and on that notion should not be selected ahead of him.
TJ is better suited to NH teams. He is more combative and does not get bullied as much as Smith does when the pack is going backwards. You can say it was a tiring Irish pack when TJ came on, maybe it was, but IMO TJ is edging Smith currently and would have been better for this game.
Savea was the pick of the forwards for me, closely followed by BBBR. But these guys need some help. With Read slowing down , Whitelock looking in similar shape and the second coming of Rueben Thorne we were easily out played by Stander and co. Same vs England. Cane is a huge loss and provided he gets back to full health I think the way forward is Ardie at 8, Cane 7 and Barrett at 6. Barrett is probably a stop gap. Squires shoukd just not be selected though. Hes woefully shit.
Our scrum has either been amazing or rubbish and no real inbetween. Moody being injured is hurting though and the big fulla is finding these NH scrums a bit tougher than the Argies, Wobblies and Boks.
BB is playing too flat footed and not giving any room to his outsides. Hes just so out of sorts as a play maker and yiu could only really see in structure in our play once Mounga came on. Not sure Mounga is ready to take over but he looked more in control than Barrett. Kicking boits are working though...
Biggest problem for me are the coaches selections. Yes they are 100% experimental and geared towards the WC but still frustrating to watch over the last 2 games. ALB is our best attacking midfielder and hes getting sweet fa in time on the field. just hurry the fuck up play goodhue and him fron start to finish.
Closely followed by BBBR? How many times did he drop the pill? I heart BBBR but he was dire today.
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@victor-meldrew Yep, but only if BB, Mo'unga and Dmac are all in the 23. I would never drop Mo'unga out of the 23 for Dmac.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@raznomore said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Great stuff Ireland. Played outstanding rugby and justly got the result. They are the bench mark. For now.
Read is old.
Box kicks suck and just turn over possession.
Ben Smith is the worlds best full back but lets play him on the wing..
Mckenzie is just above Jordie Barrett in suitability to test rugby...near enough isn't good
We seriously miss Cane and Id play both him and Ardie if the former wasnt injured.
Aaron Smith is not currently our best option. And has not been for a while.
Moody's absence is clearly a proplem.
The best midfielder we have didnt come on until 3 1/4s of the game was gone.
And Beuden Barrett is not a player deserving of a world player of the year nod. We were decidedly better organised once Mounga came on.I am not panicking and saying throw the baby out with the bathwater. But Read looks like 2019 might be a bridge too far. He needs one hell of an off season.
We need to stop using the box kick like its a high percentage play. It's fucking not anymore. We are simply giving the ball back to teams who are expecting the box kick now. We do not have a monopoly on aerial kick reception but we put up ineffectual kicks like we think we do.
I can not understand the selection of Mckenzie ahead of Smith other than future proofing. Mckenzie is often out of position on kick reception and he drops them at a fair clip. Mckenzie is an amazing player but he is not better than Smith and on that notion should not be selected ahead of him.
TJ is better suited to NH teams. He is more combative and does not get bullied as much as Smith does when the pack is going backwards. You can say it was a tiring Irish pack when TJ came on, maybe it was, but IMO TJ is edging Smith currently and would have been better for this game.
Savea was the pick of the forwards for me, closely followed by BBBR. But these guys need some help. With Read slowing down , Whitelock looking in similar shape and the second coming of Rueben Thorne we were easily out played by Stander and co. Same vs England. Cane is a huge loss and provided he gets back to full health I think the way forward is Ardie at 8, Cane 7 and Barrett at 6. Barrett is probably a stop gap. Squires shoukd just not be selected though. Hes woefully shit.
Our scrum has either been amazing or rubbish and no real inbetween. Moody being injured is hurting though and the big fulla is finding these NH scrums a bit tougher than the Argies, Wobblies and Boks.
BB is playing too flat footed and not giving any room to his outsides. Hes just so out of sorts as a play maker and yiu could only really see in structure in our play once Mounga came on. Not sure Mounga is ready to take over but he looked more in control than Barrett. Kicking boits are working though...
Biggest problem for me are the coaches selections. Yes they are 100% experimental and geared towards the WC but still frustrating to watch over the last 2 games. ALB is our best attacking midfielder and hes getting sweet fa in time on the field. just hurry the fuck up play goodhue and him fron start to finish.
Closely followed by BBBR? How many times did he drop the pill? I heart BBBR but he was dire today.
BBBR was all over the shop wasn't he? Good and bad often within 60 sec of each other, and I've never seen him smashed in the tackle like that.
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@canefan yep, actually make them commit numbers to the rucks, rather than 1s or 2s and leaving the rest to smash our backs.
Quick fast ball up the middle channels is our bread and butter, but we prefer the let the opposition choose the bread the way we give them the ball back.
I know playing without the ball has been a tactic, but when the other team is capable of keeping it for multiple phases it makes that play redundant.
The clever stuff is great but sometimes you need to resort to a little smash mouth rugby too
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@westcoastie his 'traditional' game is not good enough. Watch how flat footed he is and how laboured his passing is. Make it almost impossible for those outside him to get going.
When Mo'unga ran onto the ball and passed crisply the ABs started getting quick ruck ball and there was room in the midfield. Coincidence?
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@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie his 'traditional' game is not good enough. Watch how flat footed he is and how laboured his passing is. Make it almost impossible for those outside him to get going.
When Mo'unga ran onto the ball and passed crisply the ABs started getting quick ruck ball and there was room in the midfield. Coincidence?
Maybe a bit, but we had started to get a roll on before Mounga came on, and also, we lost momentum when Mounga came on (last 10min were much more even)
I've posted this already, but BB needs someone in the midfield to take a crash ball up, but there were no forwards getting that done, and hes not just going to dump Crotty into contact.
Coaches need to put their goddam hats on and sort out breaking down Rush D. -
@rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@snowy said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Haven't read the thread yet, but Wayne Barnes is a fucking cheat and Joe Schmidt a traitorous fluffybunny.
So you're not taking the loss too badly then.
Fuck you too.
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@rancid-schnitzel i must have missed a lot of those. I thought he tackled like a demon
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@westcoastie said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@westcoastie his 'traditional' game is not good enough. Watch how flat footed he is and how laboured his passing is. Make it almost impossible for those outside him to get going.
When Mo'unga ran onto the ball and passed crisply the ABs started getting quick ruck ball and there was room in the midfield. Coincidence?
Maybe a bit, but we had started to get a roll on before Mounga came on, and also, we lost momentum when Mounga came on (last 10min were much more even)
I've posted this already, but BB needs someone in the midfield to take a crash ball up, but there were no forwards getting that done, and hes not just going to dump Crotty into contact.
Coaches need to put their goddam hats on and sort out breaking down Rush D.We don't have the midfield destroyer at the moment. SBW was meant to be that guy
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@donsteppa hopefully only twice....
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@nevorian said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb yes please lets not box kick so much, hold the ball more and see what our backs can actually do would be nice
In the end I think that is what did us.
