All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@mariner4life i'd take genia over perenara's last game, but not the one before that. i'd take pocock over savea or todd without a doubt. moore is better than our bench hookers. folau would be tempting still, but not on form, more on how he'd go with the rest of our team around him.
Genia's not playing. There goes any chance that Australia had..
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@mariner4life i'd take genia over perenara's last game, but not the one before that. i'd take pocock over savea or todd without a doubt.
Don't you want to attack? I'd take Pocock over Todd (after watching him get bossed against South Africa) but what Ardie adds, Pocock can't.
moore is better than our bench hookers. folau would be tempting still, but not on form, more on how he'd go with the rest of our team around him.
Moore is badly out of form too. I don't know if he's just tired, or tired of being captain but currently, Codie Taylor is better.
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Moore has been terrible for 2 years. Pocock is a 1 trick pony, if cane is fit i would take his tackling and stronger carrying
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@antipodean i thought todd was pretty good against SA to be honest mate, but with pocock getting turnover ball for our backs there would be a whole shitload of attacking going on.
moore is nowhere near his best, but i'd still take him on the bench over anyone we've got at the moment. -
But Pocock would be shirking the other duties we expect of Cane, Todd and Ardie while tracking around looking for turnover opportunities and getting in the way of the backs. He also hasn't displayed the handling skills we expect from our players.
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I'd be taking Parsons ahead of Moore, given the lack of form Moore has been in.
Moody and Crockett ahead of their looseheads.
Coles in. TPN has been pretty good but I believe he's unavailable, so Taylor gets the bench spot.
Franks and Faumuina as tightheads.
Whitelock and Retallick, and the AB starting backrow.
On the bench I'd go Tuipoluto and Hooper.
TJP and Barrett. Cruden is now available so he gets the bench. Tough call for the reserve halfback given form of either TKB, Phipps hasn't been much to ring home about.
AB midfield and AB back three. Folau is struggling. I like Kerevi off the bench too, but Fekitoa would be just as good in that role as well.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Are the odds that surprising though ? If the ABs win will a single person on here be in the least bit surprised ?
Conversely if the Wallabies do somehow snatch one then every prick on here would have been happy to chuck a cheeky 50 bucka on that result.
Aussies have no chance. I wouldn't pick one Wallaby in a combined ANZAC team.....
ordinarily this post would be taking the piss
but
realistically, right now, if you were picking on form, who would you take from the Wallabies in an ANZAC XXIII? Maybe Kerevi in the 23 jersey? One of the opensides if Cane isn't fit? I couldn't think of any others.
Kind of worries me as I think Aussie are getting better but I can't think of too many ...
- Genia is out but would he get bench halfback over TKB?
- Moore in years gone by. Personally I think TPN is a better 2 and may get the reserve hooker role in a combined team
- Hoopah back up 7 if Cane is injured?
- Folau in previous years as back up outside back? Not so sure this year ...
Feeling very 2003 ... 😯
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I dont know if Folau is struggling or if Cheika doesn't know how to unleash him.
NB read that Cane is hopeful but probably 40:60. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But Pocock would be shirking the other duties we expect of Cane, Todd and Ardie while tracking around looking for turnover opportunities and getting in the way of the backs. He also hasn't displayed the handling skills we expect from our players.
100%. He would be the fourth Wallabies loose forward I would look at at test level in a combined team. So far down the pecking order in terms of a test level skill that I'd take Adam Thomson back ahead of him even at this point.
At Super Rugby I would honestly consider taking him over some of our starters though - his game suits that lower level much better.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Feeling very 2003 ... 😯
Biggest weakness was goal kicking there too, although Robbie/Mitch let that dictate selection to our overall games detriment.
Key difference.
Even if you could make the argument player vs player we were superior in all 15 positions (assuming when Fitzy made the comment he expected Umaga to match up against Mortlock - not MacDonald) we didn't have a clear dominance in any of the key positions Greegan/Larkham was an experienced nexus, Flatley/Mortlock was a serviceable midfield with superior goalkicking, Waugh/Smith/Lyons was equally as effective as Collins/McCaw/Thorne who hadn't quite matured yet. Mealamu was still young and Cannon was no mug. Secretly Aussie had a pretty clear advantage on the bench considering DC didn't make it on - Kelleher and to a lesser extent Holah were the only ones who promised any spark off the bench going into it.
So even if on paper we gave the nod in all those positions based on our awesome 2003 form at S12 and 3N level it wasn't unthinkable that those units couldn't beat us on their day (and not even on their day - it's not like Greegan/Larkham hadn't bossed around Marshall/Mehrts/Spencer as much as the reverse over the previous 5 years).
Now - to see our halves and loosies get soundly outplayed would be a huge shock surely? It was such a milestone in Bledisloe I last year that it has formed the entire basis of Cheika's loose forward selection going forward. To see Cooper or Foley soundly dominate Barrett would be one for the ages.
In hindsight we got very carried away with that 50 point game in Sydney, I don't think we are getting carried away with the 50 point game in Durban this time.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Was just reading at GAGR that the points difference in the world rankings is so great that the ABs can't gain anything on a win, and the Wallabies can't move down for a loss.
Literally nothing to lose
Except what's left of our dignity
So literally nothing to lose.
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@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But Pocock would be shirking the other duties we expect of Cane, Todd and Ardie while tracking around looking for turnover opportunities and getting in the way of the backs. He also hasn't displayed the handling skills we expect from our players.
100%. He would be the fourth Wallabies loose forward I would look at at test level in a combined team. So far down the pecking order in terms of a test level skill that I'd take Adam Thomson back ahead of him even at this point.
At Super Rugby I would honestly consider taking him over some of our starters though - his game suits that lower level much better.
no offense, but this is such a load of nz-centric shit. ask the saffas at the 2011 world cup if his game that day wasn't suited to test rugby. did alright in the last WC too, in y'know, tests. i was a thomson fan, think he was used poorly by the ABs, but if you think he ever dominated a test the way pocock has you are dreaming.
just because he is playing in shit teams, has a different skillset to our guys, and is a cock doesn't mean he's a poor player. shirking the duties we expect of savea/cane/todd? all those guys play very different games themselves. -
Not sure how saying I would take 3 other Aussie loosies over Pocock is NZ centric?
He is excellent at exploiting weakness and I think that is why Super Rugby suits him so well - teams are fractured, with the nature of the competition means specific game planning is often done on a trans-Atlantic flight - most of all you don't have the cattle to execute even the most basic tactic at times.
At test level, where it is best on best and the talent pool deep - offering absolutely nothing with ball in hand, at the lineout or as a non-pilfering support player at the ruck is just not acceptable these days.
I liken it a bit to Daniel Vettori's test bowling - his control and skill was no different than in the limited overs games - but his skill set didn't translate and batsman could just sit on him. He may well have had the best control of any spinner of his generation - but the brand of his game did not suit the times, nor the game itself really. I honestly doubt Pocock is talked about in depth during the game planning sessions this week, they know they just have to make sure he makes (and misses) plenty of tackles through his channel and everything else is nullified. He has no other weapon.
He was great in that QF. This is the one where his opposite Brussow was carted off in the first 5 minutes?
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But Pocock would be shirking the other duties we expect of Cane, Todd and Ardie while tracking around looking for turnover opportunities and getting in the way of the backs. He also hasn't displayed the handling skills we expect from our players.
Whilst I don't think his form has been as good as previous seasons, I'm fairly certain that Pocock has been the leading tackler for the Wallabies this season (when he's played).
One of the criticisms with the Hooper/Pocock combo is more that Pocock has been doing more openside work ie high tackle rate and winning penalties/turnovers, whereas Hooper has been more out in the backline.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But Pocock would be shirking the other duties we expect of Cane, Todd and Ardie while tracking around looking for turnover opportunities and getting in the way of the backs. He also hasn't displayed the handling skills we expect from our players.
100%. He would be the fourth Wallabies loose forward I would look at at test level in a combined team. So far down the pecking order in terms of a test level skill that I'd take Adam Thomson back ahead of him even at this point.
At Super Rugby I would honestly consider taking him over some of our starters though - his game suits that lower level much better.
no offense, but this is such a load of nz-centric shit. ask the saffas at the 2011 world cup if his game that day wasn't suited to test rugby. did alright in the last WC too, in y'know, tests. i was a thomson fan, think he was used poorly by the ABs, but if you think he ever dominated a test the way pocock has you are dreaming.
just because he is playing in shit teams, has a different skillset to our guys, and is a cock doesn't mean he's a poor player. shirking the duties we expect of savea/cane/todd? all those guys play very different games themselves.Which part of "doesn't fit into the AB way of play" didn't you get?
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@Crucial but is the AB way of playing cane, savea or todd? is it jones, kronfeld, or mccaw? is it buck shelford or zinzan? is it dane coles or keven mealamu? nonu or mauger? marshall or aaron smith? thorn or williams etc etc.
what i see is a guy who can get more turnovers than anyone else - and i think everyone can see what our guys can do with turnover ball. sticking pocock in the ABs wouldn't give us a weak lineout, or a lack of ball-carriers, or any other negative that couldn't be covered by the rest of the pack. -
@reprobate so why dont we play a gameplan that targets getting as many turnovers as possible? We know Cane, Todd and Savea can get them, so why dont we have a gameplan that focuses on them winning t/o ball?
Richie used to get alot, but he and we changed the way we play.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate so why dont we play a gameplan that targets getting as many turnovers as possible? We know Cane, Todd and Savea can get them, so why dont we have a gameplan that focuses on them winning t/o ball?
Exactly. Because our style of play is to only go for turnovers when the opportunity presents with a high chance of success., and we share the job around.
ACTC mentions that Pocock has been topping the tackle count this year. Fair enough, I haven't watched the Wallabies play much (I don't have the spare time to watch shit rugby). How's his turnover stats compared to previous years?
His turnover 'prowess' comes from making that aspect his top priority. He often hovers behind play with no aim other than looking for the turnover.
I can't find the stats for this year but in last years TRC Pocock's tackle count was below Read, McCaw, Retallick, DeJager, Burger and Etzebeth and marginally above Hooper.As for the questions regarding the 'AB style' what a meant was an emphasis on all round skills and core duties. The ABs obviously have tackling up top in a loose forwards core duties. Pocock can tackle fine but he can't rack up the tackle count AND be the turnover king. That is why in my eyes he has always been inferior to George Smith.
Yep. he's a good player and would ale an AB squad. But, like Ardie, he would be told to focus on core duties first and foremost which would negate the very aspect of his game that Reprobate wants him in the team for.
