The Phillipines
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<p>The guy is probably fucking himself up on a pile of coke every night, Scarface-style.</p>
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<p>Anyway I'm sure it fits the RWNJ narrative that seems to be running a lot of politics, but really, is it going to overcome the crippling poverty and other bullshit going on in some of those areas?</p> -
<p>one of my best mates is Filipino, and he went back in Jan/Feb this year (lived here since his teens) and I asked him about this guy a few months back and he didn't offer a lot other than he was really popular over there, esp form the city he was mayor and most of his family there thought he was great.</p>
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<p>Fuck 'em. They get what they deserve. And by they I mean Filipinos who voted this nutbag in. Because if anyone thinks extra-judicial killings are fine better be reminded that there's nothing to save them from the same fate.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="602930" data-time="1470276056">
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<p>It's highly dodgy stuff given the level of corruption in those police forces.</p>
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<p>Very good and important point</p> -
Philippines - One L, Two P's [emoji846]<br><br>
The rise of vigilantes. It's what happened in Thailand when there were calls to stamp out the scourge of human trafficking<br><br><br>
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<p>There is not here (New Zealand or Australia) however, just like here, they run their show their way for their reasons. Quite outrageous really. :think:</p>
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<p>They held an election, the bloke ran with this action as part of his platform and he got up. He has set about implementing what he said he would do and the people like it.</p> -
<p>You really can't ascribe any of our western examples of politicians on these guys in SEA</p>
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<p>From my experience the people in power (elected or not) are some of the most unconscinable humans you'll ever find. The money, power and methods these guys wield has to be seen to be believed.</p>
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<p>Any war on drugs is purely an exercise of taking out the opposition, i.e. eliminating those that don't pay the powers that be to turn a blind eye. Everyone of the high ups gets money in some form of another from those that make millions. The big dealers must pay "protection money" to the powers to turn a blind eye or do nothing if things get tight.</p>
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<p>Actually everyone doing business must pay money to get things done. It's that simple, that necessary, that ingrained and also that hard to definitively prove.</p>
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<p>Taksins war on drugs where 2500 people were killed injudiciously resulted in not one measurement of reduced drug availability. It just meant that 2500 people were identified as working for the wrong factions.</p>
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<p>In the Asian societies you'd be surprised at how much everyone knows each other's business and daily activity. Nothing is truly clandestine and money is your ticket out of every possible consequence.</p>
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<p>The prisons are filled with small time couriers (guys and solo mums re best) spend all day riding their motorbikes from house to house moving and selling. I know people that do this. One guy I know got caught with one pill. He went through court and got 30 years. For 1000 dollars that got changed to 6 years. The money was handed tot he lawyer an possibly the judge, but the lawyer took it first. Next time he got caught with a kilo of coke and was out in 2 hours (with a significant debt to the boss now)</p>
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<p>Never do they get a kingpin. If they go through the charade of a trial the guy gets off</p>
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<p>My point is, none of these leaders has any intention of stopping the drug trade. It's potentially worth 100 grand a month to him.</p>
<p>Ditto with slavery, human trafficking, prostitiution, bribery, animal smuggling. It's all fair game and it's all the politicians signed up for. Massive wealth and power and adoration.</p>
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<p>Why does it flourish? </p>
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<p>Well no one admits it's happening. No journalists can uncover it. There's a culture of leader knows best. You put your head above the parapet and say something, you disappear. The people have never ever lived under any other system.</p>
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<p>When you hear any action from any leader in the South East (Singapore excepted), picture Tony Soprano - nice and friendly and upstanding to those who don't know, but a ruthless profiteer who earned his stripes getting to where he is. It is normal</p>
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<p>They'd all be in jail in our countries, no question</p>
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<p>That's my unprofessional version as seen from the streets and knowing those at the butt end of the goings on. Others may know more but I reckon that's pretty close to how it all rolls</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-10/top-thai-cop-seeks-political-asylum-in-australia-fears-for-life/7018018'>http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-10/top-thai-cop-seeks-political-asylum-in-australia-fears-for-life/7018018</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mick Gold Coast QLD" data-cid="603380" data-time="1470469279">
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<p>There is not here (New Zealand or Australia) however, just like here, they run their show their way for their reasons. Quite outrageous really.</p>
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<p>Spot on Mick</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="603080" data-time="1470309201">
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<p>Philippines - One L, Two P's [emoji846]<br><br><strong>The rise of vigilantes. It's what happened in Thailand when there were calls to stamp out the scourge of human trafficking</strong><br><br><br>
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk</p>
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<p>Nah it didn't.</p>
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<p>It can't. </p>
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<p>As soon as someone (vigilante) started rocking the boat and upsetting the gravy train that guy would and his mates would be identified and neutralised.</p>
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<p>The only thing that'd work would be outside reporting and economic pressure, which is what Nestle and a few companies and EU did to stop slavery in the fishing game. Band aids were then applied to keep the trade</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/feb/25/slavery-trafficking-thai-fishing-industry-environmental-justice-foundation'>https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/feb/25/slavery-trafficking-thai-fishing-industry-environmental-justice-foundation</a></p> -
<p>My (limited) knowledge of SE Asian communities is restricted to Indonesia but apocryphally it appears to apply to most SE countries and that is in all walks of life, money talks. Be it from the tipping of someone to hold the traffic while you exit onto a main highway or to park, to getting the right table at a restaurant and so on upwards. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see this magnified to a much higher degree. It just seems to me that backsheesh is ingrained at all levels.</p>
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<p>As Mick says, there is not here.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="604326" data-time="1470732066">
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<p>When you hear any action from any leader in the South East (Singapore excepted), picture Tony Soprano - nice and friendly and upstanding to those who don't know, but a ruthless profiteer who earned his stripes getting to where he is. It is normal</p>
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<p>They'd all be in jail in our countries, no question</p>
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<p>I was spending quite a lot of time working in Thailand when the Duangchalerm incident occurred.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">Chalerm was born at </span><a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang_Bon" title="Bang Bon">Bang Bon</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">, </span><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok' title="Bangkok">Bangkok</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">. He is married to Lamnao Yubamrung (</span><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_language' title="Thai language">Thai</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">: </span><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">ลำเนา à¸à¸¢à¸¹à¹ˆà¸šà¸³à¸£à¸¸à¸‡</span><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">), an auxiliary judge of Thailand's juvenile court. They have three sons: Artharn, Wanchalerm and Duangchalerm.</span><sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalerm_Yubamrung#cite_note-1'>[1]</a></sup><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;"> All three of Chalerm's sons have reputations for violent mafia-like behavior. In 2001, his youngest son, Duangchalerm, was arraigned for the murder of a police officer in a nightclub. Right after the incident, Duangchalerm received shelter from a Thai general. The son then deserted from the Army and fled to Cambodia, followed by Malaysia. After a few months of staying in touch with his father, he was assured it was safe to return to Thailand and not face the consequences. Chalerm met his son in Singapore and escorted him to Thailand. He was released from jail on bail terms in 2003, and finally acquitted as the court ruled the evidence was insufficient, even though there were many eyewitnesses to the crime.</span>
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<p>The policeman who was shot at point blank range had a Thai "Policeman of the Year" award. Immediately after the murder his father, Chalerm, a very senior politician came out and said, "It couldn't have been my son. My sons are good boys. My other sons tell me it was a man named Dong".</p>
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<p>Chalerm goes on to become Deputy Prime Minister.</p>
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<p>Duangchalerm gets off - he's left the army now and guess what job he now has. Shooting instructor with the police!</p>
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Is it possible that Philippines could actually become drug free?
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No, but along with plenty of drug addicts and drug dealers lots of innocent people will be killed, and nothing will happen as there will be a sign on their body that says "drug dealer" so everyone will turn a blind eye. What a fucked up country.
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That Thai bunch prove the principle is the same - just a different scale, right?
Here, someone rich king hits a bloke and gets off because "damage to career" or some rubbish. Over there, he's someone powerful for different reasons, shoots a cop and no-one can touch them.
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How come? Yes, innocents will be killed, I get that, but this is a pretty tough line they are taking, surely it will have some effect?
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@Hooroo because the only people being slaughtered are the dealers at the bottom of the rung and the addicts The guys that actually control these operations are basically untouchable. In fact in a place like the Phillipines I'd say those guys have a fair bit of control over the government/government officials.
It's like in Bali where they catch the guys smuggling drugs and execute them, as if that is going to make a blind bit of difference. They are just the pawns in the game, they have no control over anything.
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@No-Quarter said in The Phillipines:
@Hooroo because the only people being slaughtered are the dealers at the bottom of the rung and the addicts The guys that actually control these operations are basically untouchable. In fact in a place like the Phillipines I'd say those guys have a fair bit of control over the government/government officials.
It's like in Bali where they catch the guys smuggling drugs and execute them, as if that is going to make a blind bit of difference. They are just the pawns in the game, they have no control over anything.
Fair point
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In saying that, it would have to be a pretty strong deterrent to anyone wanting to join the bottom of the rung and deal for some easy $$... but in a poor country like that there will always be takers I guess.
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@No-Quarter said in The Phillipines:
@Hooroo because the only people being slaughtered are the dealers at the bottom of the rung and the addicts The guys that actually control these operations are basically untouchable. In fact in a place like the Phillipines I'd say those guys have a fair bit of control over the government/government officials.
It's like in Bali where they catch the guys smuggling drugs and execute them, as if that is going to make a blind bit of difference. They are just the pawns in the game, they have no control over anything.
Sounds like some movie I saw about Mexican drug lords(? Might be making this up...), either side trying to use the cops to wipe each other out
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When that much money is involved, and cops make what they do, you're always going to find someone to support you in authority.
There have been a number of Mexican politicians who promised to stand up to the local cartels, who are dead.
Its another argument for decriminalising drugs: if there is no market, there is no profit.