Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative
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There was absolutely no justification for mandating the vaccine and firing staff that were not vaccinated. Definitely a dark period of NZ history, governments should never have that much power.
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@Windows97 said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
Were the efforts put into stopping covid simply cause people to die of something else, making the entire exercise moot?
this is still having a knock on effect in our health system today, for plenty of non-Covid related health issues.
Fuck, I call my Dr for an appointment, I get a call back in an hour from a Dr, telephone diagnosis, send my script to a chemist and boom, done...they dont want to see people, and they are gonna miss stuff like this.
A lady at my work, tore a ligament in her shoulder, has private cover, incident is covered under ACC, she cant get in until February just to see the specialist!
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@Catogrande said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
@Windows97 said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
Anyway without wanting to get into a pointless battle of statistics my take is.
- Covid wasn't as bad as what it was made out to be
- The vaccine was no-where near as good as what it was made out to be
And given 1 & 2 was all the efforts to curb it worthwhile? Especially in the light of climbing excess mortality in many, many countries that simply can't be explained by covid?
Were the efforts put into stopping covid simply cause people to die of something else, making the entire exercise moot?
Without even arguing either of those two points, my first comment would be that viewing things entirely in a rear view mirror is quite handy.
Though the argument that the response to it was far too overkill was around from the start - so it wasn't like this point of view was only made up once more favorable statistics were bought into light.
The generic point was that - this is overkill and time will tell.
So has "time told"? Or not?
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@Catogrande said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
I assume that you’re viewing this from an NZ centric perspective? If so I’m not really qualified to argue one way or another, as I am not familiar with the details. On the whole though and certainly from a UK perspective, the calculations of what constituted a covid death was highly questionable and I also feel that the variance in the methodology differed hugely from country to country. So much so I doubt we will ever have a meaningful metric.
Looking at your secondary questions, again I think that comes down to how an individual country has dealt with the issue. From the outside it seems that NZ was really quite draconian in its policy. Less so in the UK. For instance the main issues about people being refused entry to work if not vaccinated was broadly only in health care and note: refused entry to work, not sacked or made redundant. Certainly not as a mater of policy anyway.
In NZ it was passed into law that workers in certain jobs had to be vaccinated, police, healthcare and the military to name a few.
Was overturned when the NZ high court determined that such a law was illegal.
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i know anecdotal evidence is not evidence but
The only person in our house to have 4 shots is my wife
The only person to catch Covid twice is my wifeSo very minor if she didn't have to visit a client in the health sector she wouldn't have even tested. The cold she had the week before was way worse.
I know heaps of people who have had a case in the last few weeks. The only ones to get anything more than minorly sick are the people who have not had it before. Seems there's a case for vaccine + natural immunity
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Though the argument that the response to it was far too overkill was around from the start - so it wasn't like this point of view was only made up once more favorable statistics were bought into light.
This. The stats about who was affected by this virus were out there early on. No one can dispute this. We knew who the at risk people were. We didn't need favorable stats to support what we were saying. I think the people who are squirming are the ones who don't like someone saying "I told you so". At least they could show a little humility for the damage their governments did to society and their part in supporting it.
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@mariner4life or vaccine if you choose and/or natural immunity. Not some fucking government edict and punitive measures if you don't comply.
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@mariner4life said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
i know anecdotal evidence is not evidence but
The only person in our house to have 4 shots is my wife
The only person to catch Covid twice is my wifeSo very minor if she didn't have to visit a client in the health sector she wouldn't have even tested. The cold she had the week before was way worse.
I know heaps of people who have had a case in the last few weeks. The only ones to get anything more than minorly sick are the people who have not had it before. Seems there's a case for vaccine + natural immunity
The only person in my team at work that is fully vaccinated and boosted has had it 5 times now. I got the initial two shots as you couldn't really participate in society without them, but never had any intention of getting boosters. My wife and I got mildly sick last week, I never got a positive RAT, she got a very faint line one day, but it was the mildest shit ever. The Flu is so much worse it's not even funny, the whole thing is a joke.
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Like I know old people with 3+ comorbidities were high risk so didn't want the thing, fair enough, but mandating vaccines and shutting down the world for that shit when there's any number of viruses that would finish those people off was frankly insane. Why did we all copy what the Chinese government was doing? They'll use any excuse to exert power over their people, I thought western countries would be above that sort of thing. This whole pandemic was very eye opening, freedom is hard fought and easily lost it seems.
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@Windows97 said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
@booboo said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
@MajorRage said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
@Windows97 said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
@Joans-Town-Jones Hard to tell if the excess deaths are caused by the vax or if it was all the other health services that were stopped/delayed/just not done during lockdown.
We probably won't be able to tell until years later as it is far too political for any sort of unbiased truth to come out - and I mean both sides of the argument for that.
In regards to the effectiveness of the vaccine? Well it did an incredibly good job of making rich people a lot richer.
In regards to it's health benefits it appears to...
Help you not catch it - just a little bit.
Help you not pass it on - just a little bit.
Help you not get hospitalized - just a little bit.
And not die from it - just a little bit.So not exactly the wonder drug that would save us all...
You may be right about point 1 & 2, but not 3 and 4.
The evidence was everywhere that it did both of those things.
Even if it did each of those "just a little bit", does that not justify the vaccine?
Two, very genuine questions:
1 what is current case fatality rate?
2. What is the rate of transmission?I'd be really surprised if either is ofconcern. And further, I'd be really surprised if those rates weren't at least in part attributable to the vaccine.
Well in response
- The accuracy of that number is politely put "inaccurate" considering it's been used as a political kick ball, I would assume in some places it's wildly over-stated and in others wildly understated. The current "dying with covid" measurement gratuitously over counts the number of people who have died with covid been the primary cause. For instance in NZ someone was shot to death "with covid" and added to the covid death stats...
- Excluding a spike from Jan to Apr 2022 transmission rates are the same as they've ever been.
So again a genuine question, knowing what we know about the vaccine now.
- Was staying in lockdown till we achieved a 90% immunization rate justified?
- Was forcing people into redundancy for not getting immunized justified?
- absolutely not
- even more absolutely not
To call your own citizens 2nd class for declining an experimental vaccine untested on humans that does absolutely nothing to prevent contraction or transmission is completely sick. Anyone who was fired should be eligible for a handsome payout.
It's interesting, more people die annually from alcohol related causes yet alcohol isn't banned.
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@Joans-Town-Jones and yet driving under the influence is. Maybe it shouldn't be by the sounds of it.
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@No-Quarter said in Alternative Covid - Challenging the Narrative:
The Flu is so much worse it's not even funny, the whole thing is a joke.Can confirm. I have it right now. Two days of fever and nothing else. Feeling better today.