All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@Chester-Draws Fantastic post, I also think Foster was coaching some of the best players on the planet under Hansen and any competent coach would have been made to look good. Once he lost the players things started to fall apart and we have not seen any change under his tenure to suggest different.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.It's not about a 'right to win', it's frustration with no game plan, seeing talented players underperform, and weird selections not based on form.
As for not celebrating players from other countries - for me and many others on here, that is just bullshit. We're not talking about O'driscoll, Horan, Eales, Dusattoir, Burger etc - we're talking about James Lowe and JGP beating the ABs, a team they couldn't make.There is a proof, how do we know they wouldn't have made ABs? Hell look at Isaac Boss people said the same about him, and ignore the fact he turned down AB jersey when selected. I agree Lowe and JGP are better players than they appeared when they left country, and speaks to me of a very good club comp they are in, also shows what I mean in comparing the teams, you can only name NZ players in Irish team. I am disappointed as anyone , but reamain of the opinion we need to look at other teams and how good somw of their players are. All you did was rubbish Lowe and JGP and not actually given them credit for being good players.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Goodhue 12 Reiko 13, gonna be the world cup combo, Clarke 11 Jordan 14. ALB, Reece, TUJ to fight for 23 jersey.
will it though? goodhue just cant seem to be fit at the right time....and is it not a little worrying of those names only a couple are currently getting game time
sure, on paper or Rugby Challenge stats....but in reality ?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Goodhue 12 Reiko 13, gonna be the world cup combo, Clarke 11 Jordan 14. ALB, Reece, TUJ to fight for 23 jersey.
will it though? goodhue just cant seem to be fit at the right time....and is it not a little worrying of those names only a couple are currently getting game time
sure, on paper or Rugby Challenge stats....but in reality ?
Yep I like you kiwi and not sure how good Goodhue will be with a run of no injuries, he (like ALB) almost seem detined to be like Richard Kahui etc, players who have real bad luck with injuries.
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I know I harp on about 10s but the test game at the moment is not suited to either of our best 10s. We are missing a game controller. Both BB and RM play off instinct rather than break teams down. RM can break down poor teams but not good ones, which requires better kicking from hand than he has.
It is fair to say that we aren't running an attack from other players for these guys can feed into but also maybe there is an element of having to try and run a game that suits them?
I think we are in some fairly medium/long term strife as we have a generation of 10s and coaches that have grown up emulating a style that isn't effective at the moment given the changes to defensive systems.
Put a DC in this AB side and you'd see a massive difference from his ability to steer us around the park. Even a Cruden would do a better job..We are complaining that our gameplan seems to rely on individual brilliance but then have two 10s that have always played that way.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Crucial yep, def one of the issues.
BUt you have to wonder, all this aimless kicking (ignoring the length for a moment) is surely part of the game plan? Maybe not aimless, but not putting it to touch
That does my head in too, as kicking into touch from exit plays allows you to pause and reset your defence.
BB was just as guilty of aimless kicking for the Blues, so maybe that says more about him and his execution than the plan for both teams he plays for.
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@Frank Agree for some teachers but teachers involved in research (usually higher education) can get better. I suppose it is similar to going to a doctor/dentist who was trained 30 years ago and hasn't added any strings to his bow since.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Can you persuade me by giving examples of coaches who got better after more than a dozen years on the job? They are few and far between. Even great coaches tend to fade with age, rather than get better, which is also contrary to the "you get better with experience" line.
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
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with all due respect @Dan54 you are talking absolute shit and you can jam your "so called supporters" and your made-up argument about people here don't know the opposition.
It appears you consider yourself just so much more enlightened than the rest of us, but really you are just sanctimonious. You know what? stay and watch your Div 2 club play, revel in just how grounded and grass roots you are.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in.
I think the issue is not the losses so much, it's the manner of the losses/performances.
If you look at things the ABs can control, things like their attacking shape, their defensive system, their kicking game, there are real problems there - the same problems that came up last year.
There's almost no sign of progress or change being made with the ABs.
Despite 12 months of superior form from Samisoni the likes of Codie Taylor are nailed on starters etc.
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@Crucial although our kick chase could still be better, too often a lone ranger chasing up, in staggered lines rather than straight or sweeping reducing options.
I reckon DC, right now could still run this ship better than we see currently.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Can you persuade me by giving examples of coaches who got better after more than a dozen years on the job? They are few and far between. Even great coaches tend to fade with age, rather than get better, which is also contrary to the "you get better with experience" line.
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
With plenty of lessons in those first 4 years - rotation, pressure, gameplan, midfield. Things in my view started to come right around late 08, even if we had tough losses in 09, but you could see what was happening and the direction.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
but you could see what was happening and the direction.
And that seems to be the issue with us right now, you cant see where they are going, or what they are changing to achieve it, whatever 'it' is.
I mean we have made zero progress on the rush defence in what, 5 years? Why have we not tried to employ it, given our defence in that same period has gotten worse.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
"Good" Auckland coach? He won the NPC four years in a row, then went on to win the Super Rugby title two years in a row. You are grossly understating his coaching at the time. He was a f**cking great coach and should have been straight to the ABs.
Then he left for Wales, and proceeded to immediately turn them around. They had eleven straight victories and was titled "The Great Redeemer".
He took a while to readjust to the ABs, but losing one semi-final did not at any time make him a bad coach. He had a record for his first four years that Foster would kill for.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Sir Graham. Good Auckland Coach, went OK at Wales, learned a massive amount as Lions coach and became a supreme coach for the ABs for 8 years.
"Good" Auckland coach? He won the NPC four years in a row, then went on to win the Super Rugby title two years in a row. You are grossly understating his coaching at the time. He was a f**cking great coach and should have been straight to the ABs.
Then he left for Wales, and proceeded to immediately turn them around. They had eleven straight victories and was titled "The Great Redeemer".
He took a while to readjust to the ABs, but losing one semi-final did not at any time make him a bad coach. He had a record for his first four years that Foster would kill for.
That's why I don't remember that game.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Frank Agree for some teachers but teachers involved in research (usually higher education) can get better. I suppose it is similar to going to a doctor/dentist who was trained 30 years ago and hasn't added any strings to his bow since.
You jest surely? Research makes you better in the classroom? My mate was ambitious and did his Masters in Education. What a waste of time that was!
The only advantage that doing the post-grad stuff does is what I said -- taking the time to do something different. That refreshes you just because it is something different. I took some time out a few years back, and just being out of the classroom for a while made me better when I returned.
A lot of coaches would be better off if they simply took a sabbatical every eight years or so.
I do think that coaching overseas is a massive help. It makes coaches see the game differently, and exposes them to new ways.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
That's why I don't remember that game.
I've only ever been told about it, so details are very hazy to me.
