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@Victor-Meldrew said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
As an aside, what do you put down as you're ethnicity on public forms?
(I tick the right box if it's medical, but otherwise it's "Other" and Pacific islander)
Whatever is the most applicable. European / British / Irish / Other White etc etc.
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@antipodean said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
Ok, so in that case there was a sign asking you to tell the staff. Sometimes there is a form they ask you to fill in. I've had to fill in forms for an x-ray where it asked if I was pregnant. (I wasn't).
Do you think I should have been offended by that form? Should I have refused to fill in that question?
Why would I care what you did?
Same reason you seem to care a lot what this bloke did?If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
Edit: and in case you're thinking they'd still give me the x-ray anyway, yes they probably would, but providing a medical service isn't the same as accepting a donation. I'm sure they're processing hundreds of donations a day in the blood centre, they probably wouldn't have time or patience for dealing with outrage seekers who refuse to answer some questions because they're offended by a form
I don't recall seeing public appeals for more people to have unnecessary medical procedures, I do know the Red Cross routinely asks for donations when stocks are low.
Yup, but they've still got to follow process like collecting details of donor's medical status etc.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
So much for "inclusiveness" by hospital staff then, eh?
Eh?
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@MajorRage said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
Sure these last few posts show just how truly toxic this debate has become. You can't seem to have an opinion on this (either way) without people firing up at you.
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
A 5ml donation of common sense would have avoided this whole absurd story.
It's a blood donation form. Fill in the form, then donate blood. The only person not showing common sense is some old duffer who refused to fill in the form, because he wanted to make a ridiculous point. Sure, some of the questions on the form aren't applicable to you. Answer it anyway, we've all had medical forms asking the same thing and it's not a big deal.
People make bigger deals about everything than is required every single day. Who knows what sort of a day he was having - maybe he chatted to somebody who set him off and put him in a mood?
OK, fair enough, we don't know what was going on for him, just judging from a small article on an obscure news source
The staff don't have time for discussions with outrage junkie who wants to find a reason to be offended. What if everyone said "I'm not filling that in, you can tell from looking at me if I'm male / female" / "do I look under 18 to you?" . Fill in the form, or don't and fuck off, simple.
Mate the guy is clearly not pregnant. Why can't the NHS staff just have a little laugh at it, tick the box for him, take the blood and everybody moves on? And they get they blood they need. Everybody wins.
Well we don't really know what happened in there. My guess is because they've got hundreds of people filling in the forms, and they just want to check that people have completed them and process them so they can move onto the next one. Maybe the form is because every other person in there wants to have a discussion about pregnancy or drugs or sexual history or travel or whatever and the staff don't have time to deal with it. Maybe he was being obstructive or argumentative, who knows?
And then, to cap it all, he goes and calls a reporter and share this faux-outrage madness with the world.
Think you need to think about this a bit more. It's the Gulf insider. What on earth is that? This looks more to me like somebody looking for an anti-west story and finding it. To be fair, it wouldn't be hard these days. I can't imagine how form refusal chap called the Gulf Insider to unload his guts about this. If he wanted to make a big deal and go nuts, surely it'd be The Mail.
Et voila
Common sense is truly in short supply.
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
They seem to be the only calm ones in this whole nonsense
Calm ones? They refused to take blood from a willing donor (who had put himself out to attend the donation drive) over his politics.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
His politics? Get a grip. Some bloke went to donate blood, then refused to fill in the form. They said "just fill in the form please" , he said "No, I'm too outraged by this generic medical form, I'm off to call the Gulf Insider and the Daily Mail"
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@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Victor-Meldrew said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
So much for "inclusiveness" by hospital staff then, eh?
Eh?
If the hospital staff rolled their eyes and thought you a complete dick because you took exception to obviously dumb questions, they are the ones with the problem - not you.
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@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
His politics? Get a grip. Some bloke went to donate blood, then refused to fill in the form. They said "just fill in the form please" , he said "No, I'm too outraged by this generic medical form, I'm off to call the Gulf Insider and the Daily Mail"
Doesn't help when you make stuff up. From the article:
This time around, there was a question I hadn’t seen before: ‘Are you pregnant, or have you been in the last six months?’ which required a yes or no answer. ‘I pointed out to the staff that it was impossible for me to be in that position (pregnancy) but I was told that I would need to answer, otherwise I couldn’t give blood.
‘‘I told them that was stupid and that if I had to leave, I wouldn’t be back, and that was it, I got on my bike and cycled away.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@Victor-Meldrew said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
So much for "inclusiveness" by hospital staff then, eh?
Eh?
If the hospital staff rolled their eyes and thought you a complete dick because you took exception to obviously dumb questions, they are the ones with the problem - not you.
Checking if someone is pregnant before an x-ray is a bloody important question. If I saw that on a form I wouldn't think it was dumb, I'd just know that it was intended for other people. And then I'd tick "No" and be completely unoffended by it.
It's been happening for decades. Why are people now suddenly getting outraged about it? Do they need to make different versions of every form, so that men or post-menopausal women, or the infertile, don't get offended? That really would be ludicrous.
I thought you blokes were generally against absurd outrage over trivial things
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So many ways this non-story could have been averted. There’s no issue with a generic form, maybe an additional box to say not applicable but not really necessary. Bloke could have just ticked the box or stated the obvious that it doesn’t apply to him and then carry on. The staff could have simply sighed and ticked the box for him. But no. Everyone has to stand on their dignity and be as dickish as they can.
Time to move on.
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@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
His politics? Get a grip. Some bloke went to donate blood, then refused to fill in the form. They said "just fill in the form please" , he said "No, I'm too outraged by this generic medical form, I'm off to call the Gulf Insider and the Daily Mail"
Trans politics, yes.
If he’s such a bigot, as you claim, the NHS staff should have been bigger than it, ticked it for him, and taken the blood.
They didn’t. They chose his politics over the greater good.
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@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@antipodean said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
Ok, so in that case there was a sign asking you to tell the staff. Sometimes there is a form they ask you to fill in. I've had to fill in forms for an x-ray where it asked if I was pregnant. (I wasn't).
Do you think I should have been offended by that form? Should I have refused to fill in that question?
Why would I care what you did?
Same reason you seem to care a lot what this bloke did?
But I don't. That should be obvious. What I'm motivated enough to comment on is that an organisation that relies on goodwill for donations insisted a person for whom the question clearly doesn't apply answer it or they'd turn him away. All in the interests of satisfying a tiny percentage of people who probably don't give blood anyway.
If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
Edit: and in case you're thinking they'd still give me the x-ray anyway, yes they probably would, but providing a medical service isn't the same as accepting a donation. I'm sure they're processing hundreds of donations a day in the blood centre, they probably wouldn't have time or patience for dealing with outrage seekers who refuse to answer some questions because they're offended by a form
I don't recall seeing public appeals for more people to have unnecessary medical procedures, I do know the Red Cross routinely asks for donations when stocks are low.
Yup, but they've still got to follow process like collecting details of donor's medical status etc.
There's no requirement to insist upon a process that makes no sense and is counterproductive.
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You guys really are jumping at shadows. Do you see trans activist conspiracies in everything?
Maybe the staff would have happily ticked the box on the form for this guy if he'd asked politely (maybe he did, maybe he didn't, we have no idea). Maybe he just asked a busy nurse who was trying to help someone else "Do I have to complete the question about being pregnant" and she just said "Just answer them all please." Who knows? This guy was clearly offended by it for whatever reason, we don't know how it went down in the clinic.
But then when it gets weird is after he leaves - presumably he contacts a newspaper, and they've got outrage-junkies desperate for a hit so they run with it, put in a few vague lines suggesting that it is somehow connected to a woke agenda (the word "inclusiveness" seems to be an excellent trigger). Next thing you know, people are imagining that the SBTS are so terrified of these trans-activity boogeymen and boogeywomen and boogeynonbinaries that they're turning donors away because they're terrified that someone will report them to the Trans Gestapo because they ticked a box on behalf of an old dude.
@antipodean said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@antipodean said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
Ok, so in that case there was a sign asking you to tell the staff. Sometimes there is a form they ask you to fill in. I've had to fill in forms for an x-ray where it asked if I was pregnant. (I wasn't).
Do you think I should have been offended by that form? Should I have refused to fill in that question?
Why would I care what you did?
Same reason you seem to care a lot what this bloke did?
But I don't. That should be obvious. What I'm motivated enough to comment on is that an organisation that relies on goodwill for donations insisted a person for whom the question clearly doesn't apply answer it or they'd turn him away. All in the interests of satisfying a tiny percentage of people who probably don't give blood anyway.
If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
Edit: and in case you're thinking they'd still give me the x-ray anyway, yes they probably would, but providing a medical service isn't the same as accepting a donation. I'm sure they're processing hundreds of donations a day in the blood centre, they probably wouldn't have time or patience for dealing with outrage seekers who refuse to answer some questions because they're offended by a form
I don't recall seeing public appeals for more people to have unnecessary medical procedures, I do know the Red Cross routinely asks for donations when stocks are low.
Yup, but they've still got to follow process like collecting details of donor's medical status etc.
There's no requirement to insist upon a process that makes no sense and is counterproductive.
Processes don't come more simple and sensible and productive than "ask the donors to complete a form".
I'm sure they've always had people refusing to answer some questions for a whole bunch of reasons. Fat lady says "Are you asking if I'm pregnant because I'm fat?" The town mayor says "Do I look like someone who injects drugs?" Vicar's wife says "How dare you ask if I've had unprotected anal recently"
Some are easy to answer, and others would be harder. Maybe the staff are allowed to use discretion, if they have the time and someone asks nicely. Quite likely someone decided that the most sensible and productive way to deal with them all is just to ask all volunteers to complete all the questions on the form.
Doesn't seem worth it to spend loads of time and energy on trying to placate the tiny percentage who are so desperate to be offended that they'll find a way no matter what.
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@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
You guys really are jumping at shadows. Do you see trans activist conspiracies in everything?
Maybe the staff would have happily ticked the box on the form for this guy if he'd asked politely (maybe he did, maybe he didn't, we have no idea). Maybe he just asked a busy nurse who was trying to help someone else "Do I have to complete the question about being pregnant" and she just said "Just answer them all please." Who knows? This guy was clearly offended by it for whatever reason, we don't know how it went down in the clinic.
But then when it gets weird is after he leaves - presumably he contacts a newspaper, and they've got outrage-junkies desperate for a hit so they run with it, put in a few vague lines suggesting that it is somehow connected to a woke agenda (the word "inclusiveness" seems to be an excellent trigger). Next thing you know, people are imagining that the SBTS are so terrified of these trans-activity boogeymen and boogeywomen and boogeynonbinaries that they're turning donors away because they're terrified that someone will report them to the Trans Gestapo because they ticked a box on behalf of an old dude.
@antipodean said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@antipodean said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
Ok, so in that case there was a sign asking you to tell the staff. Sometimes there is a form they ask you to fill in. I've had to fill in forms for an x-ray where it asked if I was pregnant. (I wasn't).
Do you think I should have been offended by that form? Should I have refused to fill in that question?
Why would I care what you did?
Same reason you seem to care a lot what this bloke did?
But I don't. That should be obvious. What I'm motivated enough to comment on is that an organisation that relies on goodwill for donations insisted a person for whom the question clearly doesn't apply answer it or they'd turn him away. All in the interests of satisfying a tiny percentage of people who probably don't give blood anyway.
If I'd returned the form and told them that I refuse to answer some questions on principle because I don't think they're applicable, the staff would have rolled their eyes and thought I was being incredibly obtuse and an absolute dick.
Edit: and in case you're thinking they'd still give me the x-ray anyway, yes they probably would, but providing a medical service isn't the same as accepting a donation. I'm sure they're processing hundreds of donations a day in the blood centre, they probably wouldn't have time or patience for dealing with outrage seekers who refuse to answer some questions because they're offended by a form
I don't recall seeing public appeals for more people to have unnecessary medical procedures, I do know the Red Cross routinely asks for donations when stocks are low.
Yup, but they've still got to follow process like collecting details of donor's medical status etc.
There's no requirement to insist upon a process that makes no sense and is counterproductive.
Processes don't come more simple and sensible and productive than "ask the donors to complete a form".
I'm sure they've always had people refusing to answer some questions for a whole bunch of reasons. Fat lady says "Are you asking if I'm pregnant because I'm fat?" The town mayor says "Do I look like someone who injects drugs?" Vicar's wife says "How dare you ask if I've had unprotected anal recently"
Some are easy to answer, and others would be harder. Maybe the staff are allowed to use discretion, if they have the time and someone asks nicely. Quite likely someone decided that the most sensible and productive way to deal with them all is just to ask all volunteers to complete all the questions on the form.
Doesn't seem worth it to spend loads of time and energy on trying to placate the tiny percentage who are so desperate to be offended that they'll find a way no matter what.
It's amazing the lengths you'll go to to create your own narrative rather than dealing with what was actually contained in the article. You've contradicted yourself and introduced enough red herrings to feed a small African nation.
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Mate, I've contradicted myself exactly zero times, and I've gone off the article as it was written (and the various replies).
I've speculated on a few things, because the article was very light on detail, but I've been pretty clear about where I've done that, and I reckon ive been pretty reasonable. Zero red herrings.
There's plenty of genuinely ludicrous shit going on in the world that we could be talking about, without needing to invent things
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@gibbon-rib said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
Mate, I've contradicted myself exactly zero times, and I've gone off the article as it was written (and the various replies).
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/731124 says otherwise. You also implied the form hadn't changed when it was clearly explained it had and the reason for its change, quoted from the director of the Scottish National Blood Transfusion Service.
I've speculated on a few things, because the article was very light on detail, but I've been pretty clear about where I've done that, and I reckon ive been pretty reasonable. Zero red herrings.
You've invented a narrative as sympathetic as possible to your point of view. At no point did you entertain the equal probability that a long term donor simply said he wasn't prepared to answer a question that obviously didn't apply and some officious staff responded that if he didn't, he couldn't give blood.
Now ask yourself who is the loser in this scenario.
There's plenty of genuinely ludicrous shit going on in the world that we could be talking about, without needing to invent things
But tellingly you aren't...
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Well, this has been one of the more bizarre discussions I've had for quite a while. Still, it's been fun, and I've learned something. The Parable Of The Generic Medical Form And The Attention Seeking Moron will stay with me for some time.
I will follow Castogrand's advice and move on
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I'm struggling to see what's worth getting so upset about.
I think we all agree the guys is over reacting and going to the media is more than a touch absurd.
We just disagree with how the Scots NHS dealt with it.
You think they've been fantastic and shouldn't deal with this stuff, I think they should blow it off and move on and get what they desperately need.
Thats kind of it really.
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@MajorRage said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
ticked it for him
Would that not be a huge no no that could result in them getting their arses kicked?
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@Bones said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
@MajorRage said in F off with the damn PC Brigade:
ticked it for him
Would that not be a huge no no that could result in them getting their arses kicked?
Well he made it clear that he can't answer the question .. therefore some assistance was required.
I always thought taxes were paid for assistance,
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This post is deleted!
F off with the damn PC Brigade