Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@smudge said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So New Zealand has hard shut it's borders again - due to Omicron cases in the MIQ.
The lottery system has been turned off.
I fucking hate you Ardern. Like I've never ever hated anybody before.
Any indication for how long?
No. None at all. Nothing.
And gutlessly, they've done it via faceless MBIE social media accounts/websites.
WEll, it's not like Tova or Suzanne were going to hold them to account anyway.
Particularly Tova, seeing as she's left Newshub... (but can't start her new job yet) https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300496408/mediaworks-radio-show-launch-hinges-on-outcome-of-tova-obriens-employment-case
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@smudge said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@smudge said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So New Zealand has hard shut it's borders again - due to Omicron cases in the MIQ.
The lottery system has been turned off.
I fucking hate you Ardern. Like I've never ever hated anybody before.
Any indication for how long?
No. None at all. Nothing.
And gutlessly, they've done it via faceless MBIE social media accounts/websites.
WEll, it's not like Tova or Suzanne were going to hold them to account anyway.
Particularly Tova, seeing as she's left Newshub... (but can't start her new job yet) https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300496408/mediaworks-radio-show-launch-hinges-on-outcome-of-tova-obriens-employment-case
Probably helps explain why I've seen absolutely zero difference in the number of negative news stories about Ardern.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So New Zealand has hard shut it's borders again - due to Omicron cases in the MIQ.
The lottery system has been turned off.
I fucking hate you Ardern. Like I've never ever hated anybody before.
That should be a scandal.
Here in Japan, we had 5000 cases today. 7 people seriously ill in hospital.
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So New Zealand has hard shut it's borders again - due to Omicron cases in the MIQ.
The lottery system has been turned off.
I fucking hate you Ardern. Like I've never ever hated anybody before.
That should be a scandal.
Here in Japan, we had 5000 cases today. 7 people seriously ill in hospital.
7 / 5000 = 0.14%
Woah! Sound the alarm!!! -
FFS talk about showing unimaginative and weak leadership in response to the latest covid19 threat. John Key was right, Jacinda and her lot have turned us into the hermit country and show zero idea of how to transition us back into the global community.
14 new cases on Tuesday, with 30 in hospital and 2 in ICU. Hardly the surge stuff and the modelers warned us about
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
FFS talk about showing unimaginative and weak leadership in response to the latest covid19 threat. John Key was right, Jacinda and her lot have turned us into the hermit country and show zero idea of how to transition us back into the global community.
14 new cases on Tuesday, with 30 in hospital and 2 in ICU. Hardly the surge stuff and the modelers warned us about
Because they were talking shit
Again
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
FFS talk about showing unimaginative and weak leadership in response to the latest covid19 threat. John Key was right, Jacinda and her lot have turned us into the hermit country and show zero idea of how to transition us back into the global community.
...
14 new cases on Tuesday, with 30 in hospital and 2 in ICU. Hardly the surge stuff and the modelers warned us about
Borders closed again, really? - I'll put any hope of a visit back to NZ to 2025
Here in the UK like many I caught it over Xmas/New Year ... 50+, vaxxed and boosted. Started like a cold but with bonus ultra-loud sneezing. I wouldn't have thought anything much, except after about a week I felt ultra-tired after anything physical
Anyway the huge spike in case rates hasn't translated into the levels of serious illness or stress on the NHS public health system we've seen before and seems to be dropping pretty fast
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@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
FFS talk about showing unimaginative and weak leadership in response to the latest covid19 threat. John Key was right, Jacinda and her lot have turned us into the hermit country and show zero idea of how to transition us back into the global community.
...
14 new cases on Tuesday, with 30 in hospital and 2 in ICU. Hardly the surge stuff and the modelers warned us about
Borders closed again, really? - I'll put any hope of a visit back to NZ to 2025
Here in the UK like many I caught it over Xmas/New Year ... 50+, vaxxed and boosted. Started like a cold but with bonus ultra-loud sneezing. I wouldn't have thought anything much, except after about a week I felt ultra-tired after anything physical
Anyway the huge spike in case rates hasn't translated into the levels of serious illness or stress on the NHS public health system we've seen before and seems to be dropping pretty fast
The longer we wait and try to keep it out, the more likely we will need boosters again because out bodies still haven't developed actual immunity from getting covid19. They don't say so, but they are still using the elimination playbook
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
FFS talk about showing unimaginative and weak leadership in response to the latest covid19 threat. John Key was right, Jacinda and her lot have turned us into the hermit country and show zero idea of how to transition us back into the global community.
...
14 new cases on Tuesday, with 30 in hospital and 2 in ICU. Hardly the surge stuff and the modelers warned us about
Borders closed again, really? - I'll put any hope of a visit back to NZ to 2025
Here in the UK like many I caught it over Xmas/New Year ... 50+, vaxxed and boosted. Started like a cold but with bonus ultra-loud sneezing. I wouldn't have thought anything much, except after about a week I felt ultra-tired after anything physical
Anyway the huge spike in case rates hasn't translated into the levels of serious illness or stress on the NHS public health system we've seen before and seems to be dropping pretty fast
The longer we wait and try to keep it out, the more likely we will need boosters again because out bodies still haven't developed actual immunity from getting covid19. They don't say so, but they are still using the elimination playbook
I don't think that is true. Even this govt is well beyond thinking elimination and have said so for some time.
What they are doing though is buying time and it remains to be seen if that strategy is correct.
The Omicron experience around the world is still playing out but the obvious part of incredibly rapid spread is there to be seen already.
At the moment it isn't doing much harm to NZ (as a whole) to keep stalling from allowing it to run free while we get some further protection against severity.
I get the 'let it in' arguments but also understand that when faced with actually making that decision it is not a reversible option and if it backfired it would be close to a criminal act against some.
Problem is that we actually have choices and have to make decisions. Advantage is that we have choices and can make decisions. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. -
@canefan I'm due my booster in a week or so, but am contemplating waiting for the original 6 month frame that was recommended rather than the rushing 4 months, which would mean I am boosted early autumn.
Although I guess if shit hits the fan like we know it will I'll probably just do it.
Know quite a lot who've had boosters, obviously Pfizer is the only prick in the game, some have had alot more bruising and aching, some less than either of.the 1st 2...
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
FFS talk about showing unimaginative and weak leadership in response to the latest covid19 threat. John Key was right, Jacinda and her lot have turned us into the hermit country and show zero idea of how to transition us back into the global community.
...
14 new cases on Tuesday, with 30 in hospital and 2 in ICU. Hardly the surge stuff and the modelers warned us about
Borders closed again, really? - I'll put any hope of a visit back to NZ to 2025
Here in the UK like many I caught it over Xmas/New Year ... 50+, vaxxed and boosted. Started like a cold but with bonus ultra-loud sneezing. I wouldn't have thought anything much, except after about a week I felt ultra-tired after anything physical
Anyway the huge spike in case rates hasn't translated into the levels of serious illness or stress on the NHS public health system we've seen before and seems to be dropping pretty fast
The longer we wait and try to keep it out, the more likely we will need boosters again because out bodies still haven't developed actual immunity from getting covid19. They don't say so, but they are still using the elimination playbook
I don't think that is true. Even this govt is well beyond thinking elimination and have said so for some time.
What they are doing though is buying time and it remains to be seen if that strategy is correct.
The Omicron experience around the world is still playing out but the obvious part of incredibly rapid spread is there to be seen already.
At the moment it isn't doing much harm to NZ (as a whole) to keep stalling from allowing it to run free while we get some further protection against severity.
I get the 'let it in' arguments but also understand that when faced with actually making that decision it is not a reversible option and if it backfired it would be close to a criminal act against some.
Problem is that we actually have choices and have to make decisions. Advantage is that we have choices and can make decisions. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.You have fallen into the trap of listening to what this government says, not looking at what it does.
If you think these policies aren't doing us harm you are living under a rock.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So New Zealand has hard shut it's borders again - due to Omicron cases in the MIQ.
The lottery system has been turned off.
I fucking hate you Ardern. Like I've never ever hated anybody before.
I never thought I'd see the day where the NZ government has such little regard for NZ citizens abroad. It's fucking disgraceful.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I don't think that is true. Even this govt is well beyond thinking elimination and have said so for some time.
What they are doing though is buying time and it remains to be seen if that strategy is correct.The government’s strategy is to minimise the risk of Omicron in New Zealand as much as possible.
from: https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/20-january-room-release-postponed/That sounds an awful lot like trying to keep it out frankly, which is elimination. Ironically, they may have already failed with it in the community.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial buying time for what?
Schools out, summer, back end of HUGE vaccination drive.
Buying time til all this is in the past?
Boosters. More information on the omicron 'curve'.
As I said in the post. Time will tell if it is the right strategy or not.
Point of the post isn't to argue any case for govt, it is to acknowledge that it is all very well being an armchair commentator with theories but when faced with actually opening the gates and risking higher numbers (not %s) of hospital admissions and ICU admissions when you had the option to get booster numbers up or understand the effects of the variant the decision gets harder.
There is a cautious approach which is at least consistent.@Kirwan of course there is harm in areas but by far the majority of NZ is getting along with a fairly normal life at the moment. That's what I meant by 'as a whole'.
There is a strange grass is greener view that thinks we have botched things and have it tough compared to the rest of the world. Many other countries are going through far worse scenarios. I'd say we have really fucked up in some areas (migrant workers and citizens returning), mildly fucked up in others (proven to have been over cautious with AKL lockdown release which could have been faster) but have been very successful in others (Vax %s)
Tourism and hospo businesses have been hugely affected but jobs less so (especially when these businesses rely on overseas staffing to a high degree anyway).
I'm not saying at all that the govt has got it right. I am highly critical of them in areas. Just that we aren't in too bad a place. I don't have a crystal ball but if the other mob were running things they would also have got some stuff right and others wrong. It may be a different set of impacts and maybe to different people who knows? -
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I don't think that is true. Even this govt is well beyond thinking elimination and have said so for some time.
What they are doing though is buying time and it remains to be seen if that strategy is correct.The government’s strategy is to minimise the risk of Omicron in New Zealand as much as possible.
from: https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/20-january-room-release-postponed/That sounds an awful lot like trying to keep it out frankly, which is elimination. Ironically, they may have already failed with it in the community.
That's not elimination. They have said 'It's not a matter of if but when'.
'When' is the issue. Does delaying the inevitable make sense? Is there a good reason?
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I don't think that is true. Even this govt is well beyond thinking elimination and have said so for some time.
What they are doing though is buying time and it remains to be seen if that strategy is correct.The government’s strategy is to minimise the risk of Omicron in New Zealand as much as possible.
from: https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/news/20-january-room-release-postponed/That sounds an awful lot like trying to keep it out frankly, which is elimination. Ironically, they may have already failed with it in the community.
That's not elimination. They have said 'It's not a matter of if but when'.
'When' is the issue. Does delaying the inevitable make sense? Is there a good reason?
... and that's the question really isn't it. does delaying actually reduce our risk in any meaningful way, given what we know about vaccination/booster efficacy changing with time.
Look, it's consistent - but I (and a number of people)_ think the approach is too cautious, particularly now we're in a post-vaccinated society.
one thing that has been hammered home in the last week going back to work is quite how important human contact is for people. I'm seeing my team face to face for the first time in 6 months, and it's awesome - they are great people. You just don't form the same relationships online.
Talking to some isolated elderly folk, one said they had aged 10 years in the last 6 months with lack of contact. They're happy, healthy and fit - but isolation takes its toll.
Rambling, but I guess I'm trying to say that restrictions and lockdowns do have real, direct costs to people (let alone businesses and economies), and the consequences have changed with vaccination rates finally getting up there. The words and the actions don't seem to match up well
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial buying time for what?
Schools out, summer, back end of HUGE vaccination drive.
Buying time til all this is in the past?
Boosters. More information on the omicron 'curve'.
As I said in the post. Time will tell if it is the right strategy or not.
Point of the post isn't to argue any case for govt, it is to acknowledge that it is all very well being an armchair commentator with theories but when faced with actually opening the gates and risking higher numbers (not %s) of hospital admissions and ICU admissions when you had the option to get booster numbers up or understand the effects of the variant the decision gets harder.
This is the but that is frustrating the hell out of me. It isn't opening the gates - The gates are already open a slight crack and it is being closed again.
We will forgive an outbreak if it were to occur via this slight entrance.
I understand a politician not wanting to invite a virus in, from a political risk POV, but don't understand doubling down by taking an actual action and keep responding by closing the slight opportunities for the accidental outbreak.
Get it fucking over with. They can say c'est la vie, no blood will be on their hands.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial buying time for what?
Schools out, summer, back end of HUGE vaccination drive.
Buying time til all this is in the past?
Boosters. More information on the omicron 'curve'.
As I said in the post. Time will tell if it is the right strategy or not.
Point of the post isn't to argue any case for govt, it is to acknowledge that it is all very well being an armchair commentator with theories but when faced with actually opening the gates and risking higher numbers (not %s) of hospital admissions and ICU admissions when you had the option to get booster numbers up or understand the effects of the variant the decision gets harder.
This is the but that is frustrating the hell out of me. It isn't opening the gates - The gates are already open a slight crack and it is being closed again.
We will forgive an outbreak if it were to occur via this slight entrance.
I understand a politician not wanting to invite a virus in, from a political risk POV, but don't understand doubling down by taking an actual action and keep responding by closing the slight opportunities for the accidental outbreak.
Get it fucking over with. They can say c'est la vie, no blood will be on their hands.
I don't disagree. They haven't explained good reasoning for clamping down harder AFAIK.
My post was more about the comments saying 'open up and let it do it's thing'.
That's the part that is easier said than done. -
The trap risk of this uber-cautious approach is to assume this is the last "change"
"If we just wait for omicron to subside then we can move"
Which sounds plausible right up until Pi arrives. And you go back to square one. Waiting for data. Waiting for 4th booster shots. Waiting for health capacity.
It does appear, from the very outside, that there is a hope that what happens in the rest of the world can be avoided. It really does appear inevitable that as soon as borders open even a little, cases numbers will jump and grow exponentially, and people will die. Qld is an excellent case study there. And you know what, it's not dire here. Yes, absolutely there have been consequences, but it is very easy to see those consequences would have been faced when ever borders finally opened. But to the Qld governments credit, they have not gone backwards, and are sticking to the plan no matter how many want the toothpaste back in the tube.
But, they have to do what they think is right, so good luck to them. Maybe they are right.