Black Ferns NH Tour 2021
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How much of this is "Coach Instructs Player"?
NZR to investigate 'serious allegations' against Black Ferns coach
Te Kura Ngata-Aerengamate revealed the distressing allegations in a social media post.
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@bones said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
@booboo certainly some interesting allegations. If true I can't see how she won't be backed up by several players and staff? Surely it can't have all been one to one interactions.
Running funny with the ball?
Yelled at running to rucks got me.
And helll some of the abuse I got for my lineout throwing ...
Not sure I 100% buy this
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Actually if you read what TK N-A says , she has struggled for 8 years, and she doesn't really say only on this tour.
But I also say if much of it is true you wouldn't fancy the chance Moore (or his team) surviving as coach, and also the mental skills coach and Doctor they had on tour maybe need to be looked at , as seems someone should of picked up the problems? -
@dan54 said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
Actually if you read what TK N-A says , she has struggled for 8 years, and she doesn't really say only on this tour.
But I also say if much of it is true you wouldn't fancy the chance Moore (or his team) surviving as coach, and also the mental skills coach and Doctor they had on tour maybe need to be looked at , as seems someone should of picked up the problems?Yeah, I know that the salacious part of this is to be finger pointing at the coach but it seems that the reality is that no one picked up on providing support until it things stretched too far. I know people hide emotions but at the moment of impact there are almost always signs.
We have this idea that in order to be your best in sport you must be pushed to breaking point through physical extremes but somehow also extend that to the mental side. Yes, as a sportsperson you need resilience but you get plenty of work in that area fighting through injuries, form, opposition, disappointments etc. Do you also need someone yelling criticisms at you?
Words like that stick hard. Proof is in the pudding.They stuck and it ate at her.
Coaching is about getting the best out of everyone. For some harsh criticism is a little kick forward, for others it's the wrong tool. Good coaches are aware and pick up on these things because it is their job to get the best from indiviuals as well as the team. Graham Henry took a long time to recognise this, especially with pasifika players.
This is a great wake up for NZR that putting positions and words around support means nothing if people aren't being aware of what is happening around them and being self aware enough that after saying something harsh they reflect afterwards on the fairness of their words and take action if necessary. -
dont know quite how to word this , but how is this any different from any other "injury" .if she had been like this for eight years why was she on tour . why did she make herself available for selection. seem to me she hasnt been honest with herself/team management.
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@ploughboy said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
dont know quite how to word this , but how is this any different from any other "injury" .if she had been like this for eight years why was she on tour . why did she make herself available for selection. seem to me she hasnt been honest with herself/team management.
I doubt we'd have many players in any sports teams if that was the criteria. And when players are up front they get beaten up by fans and media for being 'soft'. See Liam Squire in 2019. Combination of pressures and injuries, he confided and was then 'covered up' as personal and family issues whitewash which added to the questions and digging.
We are still learning on how to do this well. -
@crucial said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
We have this idea that in order to be your best in sport you must be pushed to breaking point through physical extremes but somehow also extend that to the mental side. Yes, as a sportsperson you need resilience but you get plenty of work in that area fighting through injuries, form, opposition, disappointments etc. Do you also need someone yelling criticisms at you?
Words like that stick hard. Proof is in the pudding.They stuck and it ate at her.It's a fine line, and it's judgement based. Obviously in this case the effect is unacceptable. Elite sport though, is elite - it takes a rare breed of physical and mental capacity to really excel. Coaches have to be so aware and tuned in to the effect they have on people.
The contrast is Tiger Woods of course, with his dad throwing racial epithets at him as a young person so he learned to deal with and cope with that.
One thing is for sure, there will be more to this than comes out in a single media post.
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@bovidae said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
I agree with Lendrum's comments about Ngata-Aerengamate feeling the need to use social media to raise these issues, rather than speaking to management/players directly.
As I said in the match threads, I wouldn't be selecting her on form alone.
If this is truly the feedback from the coach and he is supported right to the top (as seen) you can see why she wanted to air it publically to get it off her chest and move on though.
Throughout the years these were some comments made by head coach
- That I had been selected but didn’t deserve to be in the team
- That he was embarrassed for me
-I was told that he couldn’t tell my worth in the Blackferns
-I was told what would my students think of me? - I was sworn at for wearing my jacket around my hips, I was yelled at running to rucks, how I ran the ball, anything I did I felt I was doing wrong.
- a recent comment that I was picked only to play the guitar
Some of those comments are unacceptable and go way beyond pushing someone to perform. If that is how Moore speaks to those he coaches it's no wonder they didn't perform well.
Trying to justify that by saying 'her form was rubbish' is missing the target entirely
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@bovidae Well said. I have had to mediate this sort of thing in a former role and it is very difficult. There are always two sides, and either side can lose some perspective through frustration or misunderstanding of the other. The use of social media is a real concern though, as it tends to polarise the views of many who might otherwise help find a solution, and draws attention to specific comments that may be out of context. The management TEAM are responsible for the welfare of squad members, and clearly they had a responsibility here. It would be interesting to know their take on the quoted comments.
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@crucial said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
@bovidae said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
I agree with Lendrum's comments about Ngata-Aerengamate feeling the need to use social media to raise these issues, rather than speaking to management/players directly.
As I said in the match threads, I wouldn't be selecting her on form alone.
If this is truly the feedback from the coach and he is supported right to the top (as seen) you can see why she wanted to air it publically to get it off her chest and move on though.
Throughout the years these were some comments made by head coach
- That I had been selected but didn’t deserve to be in the team
- That he was embarrassed for me
-I was told that he couldn’t tell my worth in the Blackferns
-I was told what would my students think of me? - I was sworn at for wearing my jacket around my hips, I was yelled at running to rucks, how I ran the ball, anything I did I felt I was doing wrong.
- a recent comment that I was picked only to play the guitar
Some of those comments are unacceptable and go way beyond pushing someone to perform. If that is how Moore speaks to those he coaches it's no wonder they didn't perform well.
Trying to justify that by saying 'her form was rubbish' is missing the target entirely
Perception vs. reality. Comments made may have been misconstrued. We all have a habit of convincing ourselves that the way we perceive and thus present a narrative is correct. They may be verbatim. They may be perception.
The highlighted bit makes me think this is being overblown and thus the other comments which may or may not have been made get exaggerated to suit your own narrative. You dwell on them.
The bit about the jacket is also a probable non-event to me. Smarten up and show some respect to your team and your uniform if the occasion warranted it.
The other comments would need to be looked into. But I wonder how much of this is an over sensitive player lacking in confidence looking to confirm her insecurities and taking anything remotely resembling criticism as such.
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@booboo said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
@crucial said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
@bovidae said in Black Ferns NH Tour 2021:
I agree with Lendrum's comments about Ngata-Aerengamate feeling the need to use social media to raise these issues, rather than speaking to management/players directly.
As I said in the match threads, I wouldn't be selecting her on form alone.
If this is truly the feedback from the coach and he is supported right to the top (as seen) you can see why she wanted to air it publically to get it off her chest and move on though.
Throughout the years these were some comments made by head coach
- That I had been selected but didn’t deserve to be in the team
- That he was embarrassed for me
-I was told that he couldn’t tell my worth in the Blackferns
-I was told what would my students think of me? - I was sworn at for wearing my jacket around my hips, I was yelled at running to rucks, how I ran the ball, anything I did I felt I was doing wrong.
- a recent comment that I was picked only to play the guitar
Some of those comments are unacceptable and go way beyond pushing someone to perform. If that is how Moore speaks to those he coaches it's no wonder they didn't perform well.
Trying to justify that by saying 'her form was rubbish' is missing the target entirely
Perception vs. reality. Comments made may have been misconstrued. We all have a habit of convincing ourselves that the way we perceive and thus present a narrative is correct. They may be verbatim. They may be perception.
The highlighted bit makes me think this is being overblown and thus the other comments which may or may not have been made get exaggerated to suit your own narrative. You dwell on them.
The bit about the jacket is also a probable non-event to me. Smarten up and show some respect to your team and your uniform if the occasion warranted it.
The other comments would need to be looked into. But I wonder how much of this is an over sensitive player lacking in confidence looking to confirm her insecurities and taking anything remotely resembling criticism as such.
Yeah, I had another look at them too and can see how some could blow out of proportion based on perception. Once you feel picked on or bullied you jump at shadows. Even the guitar thing could be a joke that hurt.
Saying that you don't agree with selection and that you can't see value or deservedness is probably the root (if true) of the perception of the other comments though.
