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I do a little bit of consulting for the food industry, because it's an interest of my boss (pre-diabetic) and he has a related company.
In terms of realistic and intermediate changes that can be made, developing "highly processed" foods that are lower GI, lower caloric value (based on estimates of absorption in the gut and net ATP extraction, not simple calorimetry), and higher in protein may be the way forward.
There's a lot of interesting results from market research by large companies - an example would be that in China, a large european company in the "natural"/"organic" space found that people expressed a desire for natural/fresh food, but they thought that less processed or "natural" food tasted artificial to them. Perhaps because the strong flavours of fresh vegetables, dairy, meat etc were challenging to their conditioned pallets.
China has a higher rate of diabetes than NZ (already very high) when adjusted for age. There are huge issues about free time, ease of delivery, current food culture, lack of protein etc. India also has big problems.
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@bayimports said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@catogrande said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@taniwharugby said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
main problem with food costs in NZ is the duopoly of Foodstuffs and Woolworths.
Aldi is supposedly coming to NZ so hopefully they will put pressure on the existing ones to reduce margins, which are apparently some of the highest margins for supermarkets in the world.
Don’t bet on it mate. We have more supermarkets than you could poke a stick at and we still gave the s as me problems.
An over abundance of cheap shit.
Actually Aldi has been a disrupter in Australia, not to the extent to break the duopoly, but it has actually done enough to change certain behaviours from the two leading chains and has gained market share in the process. No guarantee it works elsewhere, but it has here and no one was expecting it.
It definitely has had an effect.
The interesting thing with fresh fruit and veg is the psychology of it when it comes to the major supermarket chains.
You may have noticed that most entrances have people going straight into the fresh food section. Nice yellow bananas are near the front and other reds and yellows too (eg strawberries and apples). Wow the same colours as Maccas…. Mark up on fruit and veggies are high so it also makes economic sense too.
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Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
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@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food. And the overall point is that it shouldn't affect your shops. Whatever you pay more for the unhealthy stuff is offset by paying less for the healthy stuff.
If you buy / consume them in the right amount.
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@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
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@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
Um ok champ ….
Do you honestly get out of bed some days and think how much of a dick can I be?
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@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
Um ok champ ….
Do you honestly get out of bed some days and think how much of a dick can I be?
Let's recap:
Antipodean: I like carbs but exercise self restraint.
MajorRage: Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food. -
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
Um ok champ ….
Do you honestly get out of bed some days and think how much of a dick can I be?
Let's recap:
Antipodean: I like carbs but exercise self restraint.
MajorRage: Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.Jesus for a lawyer you are really bad at this.
I’m out. You “win”.
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@kirwan said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
The assumption here is taxing something changes behaviour.
People still smoke, even though it’s highly taxed. Much of reduction that was seen was educating people about the links to cancer.
Less of that was done with alcohol and there tones of drinking going on.
The key is education and reducing taxes on healthy food.
You've touched on a point that takes me back decades; a paper I read that modelled tax revenue on cigarettes in Australia. The point at which revenue no longer rose due to decrease in incidence of smoking was ~$25 a packet IIRC. An astronomical amount to consider paying for cigarettes at the time which was about $5 (adjusted in 2012 money). Now it's north of $40 (in 2012 money).
This was about a decade and a half after advertising on radio and tv was banned. Almost a decade has passed since advertising was banned completely (and an offence for any person to publish tobacco advertising on the internet or other electronic media) and introduction of plain packaging.
Despite all that effort, I would contend that the public attitude towards smoking has done more to decrease the incidence of smoking in the general population than punitive taxation has. That's what poor dietary habits would have to address in an attempt to overcome; decades of making it increasingly more difficult to purchase and out of sight until we as a society treated over eaters as lepers like we do with smokers: Here's your special spot away from everyone else, plain packaging, over 18 etc. No politician is going to attempt that IMO. Well, no sane politician.
It's that or tax them into non-existence. $20 a donut..?
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I think what irks me the most is how much choice and free will do we really have? We all like to think we can make well informed choices, but I can't help but feel it's not a level playing field.
These companies spend a small fortune engineering food that we can't resist, they then use a variety of marketing tricks to get us to buy, all the while spending a fortune influencing politicians, and the general public to avoid any heat coming back on them.
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@chimoaus I'm sympathetic to the argument that "fast food" shouldn't be advertised to kids, shouldn't be available in school canteens etc. That poses a difficult problem in determining what is the acceptable definition of "fast food".
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@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@kirwan said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
The assumption here is taxing something changes behaviour.
People still smoke, even though it’s highly taxed. Much of reduction that was seen was educating people about the links to cancer.
Less of that was done with alcohol and there tones of drinking going on.
The key is education and reducing taxes on healthy food.
You've touched on a point that takes me back decades; a paper I read that modelled tax revenue on cigarettes in Australia. The point at which revenue no longer rose due to decrease in incidence of smoking was ~$25 a packet IIRC. An astronomical amount to consider paying for cigarettes at the time which was about $5 (adjusted in 2012 money). Now it's north of $40 (in 2012 money).
This was about a decade and a half after advertising on radio and tv was banned. Almost a decade has passed since advertising was banned completely (and an offence for any person to publish tobacco advertising on the internet or other electronic media) and introduction of plain packaging.
Despite all that effort, I would contend that the public attitude towards smoking has done more to decrease the incidence of smoking in the general population than punitive taxation has. That's what poor dietary habits would have to address in an attempt to overcome; decades of making it increasingly more difficult to purchase and out of sight until we as a society treated over eaters as lepers like we do with smokers: Here's your special spot away from everyone else, plain packaging, over 18 etc. No politician is going to attempt that IMO. Well, no sane politician.
It's that or tax them into non-existence. $20 a donut..?
Can't speak to Australia, but NZ also regulated significantly, so we also banned advertising, but also smoking on public property, smoking inside at bars and restaurants, smoking in planes, raised the purchase age to 18, minimum pack sizes (shops can't sell individual cigarettes) etc. major tax increases, and after a while, it just gets hard and expensive. Advertising has been anti-smoking, and has also moved public attitudes by minimising new starters.
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@chimoaus said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
I think what irks me the most is how much choice and free will do we really have? We all like to think we can make well informed choices, but I can't help but feel it's not a level playing field.
These companies spend a small fortune engineering food that we can't resist, they then use a variety of marketing tricks to get us to buy, all the while spending a fortune influencing politicians, and the general public to avoid any heat coming back on them.
Bang on IMO - it's very difficult to resist everything forever, and genetics make it harder as some people just can't touch anything or they gain weight very quickly, while others don't have that problem.
Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?