Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby Big difference between someone on there last legs or with a life threatening illness who are willing to take risks.
For people with a 1/250000 chance of dying you can respect their questioning of why.
I am full against mandatory vaccination. and the use of passports. Hopefully once the covid wave comes through we wil move along with life normally.
Yeah I can’t really respect TBH. Sure if you only think of yourself “it’s all about me” then you can go with that view. If you think the common good and society as a whole is a worthy concept, then vaccination is a no brainer.
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby Big difference between someone on there last legs or with a life threatening illness who are willing to take risks.
For people with a 1/250000 chance of dying you can respect their questioning of why.
I am full against mandatory vaccination. and the use of passports. Hopefully once the covid wave comes through we wil move along with life normally.
Yeah I can’t really respect TBH. Sure if you only think of yourself “it’s all about me” then you can go with that view. If you think the common good and society as a whole is a worthy concept, then vaccination is a no brainer.
Two things I struggle with:
- How much power are we willing to give governments, who are mostly made up of incompetent power hungry people?
- There are loads of things we could be doing for the "greater good" to stop people from getting sick and/or dying. Where do we draw the line? Life is full of risk, and for the majority of people the risk of Covid is actually comparatively lower than loads of things they do in their every day lives by choice.
The way I see it is the only concern with Covid is overwhelming health systems. If this virus is going to be endemic, then absolutely all resources should be going into beefing that system up. Governments in NZ have made a conscious choice to reduce funding for ICU and live close to the line. That decision has come back to bite us, so we should be reversing that decision and beefing it up so we don't have to do ridiculously costly lockdowns and even stupider "covid passports". Those things seriously impede people's freedoms and the former fucking ruins people's lives.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder don't really care as we got more numbers, but had heard from a few people that went to get jabbed in the week they were told to come back Saturday...we also got a text today for Miss 13 to get her 2nd jab today, 20 days after her first, we didn't, we will do the 6 week gap.
LOL what a bunch of clowns we have in government
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby Big difference between someone on there last legs or with a life threatening illness who are willing to take risks.
For people with a 1/250000 chance of dying you can respect their questioning of why.
I am full against mandatory vaccination. and the use of passports. Hopefully once the covid wave comes through we wil move along with life normally.
Yeah I can’t really respect TBH. Sure if you only think of yourself “it’s all about me” then you can go with that view. If you think the common good and society as a whole is a worthy concept, then vaccination is a no brainer.
Two things I struggle with:
- How much power are we willing to give governments, who are mostly made up of incompetent power hungry people?
- There are loads of things we could be doing for the "greater good" to stop people from getting sick and/or dying. Where do we draw the line? Life is full of risk, and for the majority of people the risk of Covid is actually comparatively lower than loads of things they do in their every day lives by choice.
The way I see it is the only concern with Covid is overwhelming health systems. If this virus is going to be endemic, then absolutely all resources should be going into beefing that system up. Governments in NZ have made a conscious choice to reduce funding for ICU and live close to the line. That decision has come back to bite us, so we should be reversing that decision and beefing it up so we don't have to do ridiculously costly lockdowns and even stupider "covid passports". Those things seriously impede people's freedoms and the former fucking ruins people's lives.
I agree with all of this. I don’t think asking people to have 2 vaccination jabs is too much.
On another note, has there ever been a proper audit done of maternal and newborn outcomes since midwives took over obstetric care…?
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@billy-tell this is part of the false narrative. If you don’t get the vaccine you are selfish and it is all about me. Sorry but your health is your responsibility not others. You are not fat or out of shape because of someone else. It is your doing. You can take precautions if at risk but again this onus has shifted to other people. It fact I believe your side holding hostage healthy people is being selfish and imposing your fears on others. In fact it is so selfish you haven’t even considered the other consequences for your Covid myopia. Do I have to point this out? Plus it is even more selfish because you are in a box and the only solution for your freedom is for everyone to get vaccinated. You probably don’t give a toss about others health. It is you getting out of jail so to speak. Natural immunity is not even a consideration although better. You care about 90 % vaccination rate and even then will your government allow you to get back to normal even when vaccinated people develop Covid? It happens you know. The one size fits all narrative is not scientific. Mandates are divisive. There’s no nuance. If the government spent more time focusing on those at risk then letting the chips fall as they may that would have been the better solution then the responsibility is on them. Sounds like they should be developing temporary Covid centers in the event of an outbreak and procuring the latest meds. Wonder if that is happening? Of course when has government been at the fore front of excellence. Just a view from the other side of the street there bro.
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@broughie said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell this is part of the false narrative. If you don’t get the vaccine you are selfish and it is all about me. Sorry but your health is your responsibility not others. You are not fat or out of shape because of someone else. It is your doing. You can take precautions if at risk but again this onus has shifted to other people. It fact I believe your side holding hostage healthy people is being selfish and imposing your fears on others. In fact it is so selfish you haven’t even considered the other consequences for your Covid myopia. Do I have to point this out? Plus it is even more selfish because you are in a box and the only solution for your freedom is for everyone to get vaccinated. You probably don’t give a toss about others health. It is you getting out of jail so to speak. Natural immunity is not even a consideration although better. You care about 90 % vaccination rate and even then will your government allow you to get back to normal even when vaccinated people develop Covid? It happens you know. The one size fits all narrative is not scientific. Mandates are divisive. There’s no nuance. If the government spent more time focusing on those at risk then letting the chips fall as they may that would have been the better solution then the responsibility is on them. Sounds like they should be developing temporary Covid centers in the event of an outbreak and procuring the latest meds. Wonder if that is happening? Of course when has government been at the fore front of excellence. Just a view from the other side of the street there bro.
Yeah nah. Unless you can share the secret of your eternal youth there bro.
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@majorrage yes, I agree lame AF...but it got an extra 130k (about 2.5% of NZ total population) vaxxed so, lame idea that achieved a goal 🤷♂️
On goals, that's a ✔ in the "done" column though...
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Am I the only one who has found the whole super Saturday thing completely lame?
Comes across to me like some sort of a kids party where Cindy is the princess telling everybody how awesome her team of 5 million little troopers are.
No, most on here thought that if look back a few pages.
I thought it would be lame, and risk of a political failure (if putting that hat on) as I genuinely didn't think there'd be enough willing people left unjabbed to make it worthwhile.
I haven't seen a scrap of coverage if it, I've just seen the numbers. Seems a rounding success, to me. Credit where its due, I think.
Although probably a bit of vaccine shifting occurred due to incentives to bloat numbers a bit. Most important is the first vax number, +40k.
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I think it’s a great success. Much like smoke free in nz. Here in Switzerland we are still sitting at about 60% to 65% and pretty much stuck at that level. And smoking is also still quite widespread. In saying that a vaxathon would be utterly derided here, it’s not at all the Swiss way of doing things.
I’m not far off writing to jacinda about the border I think the blocking of the country to overseas expats is a bit of a disgrace. I see taika watiti thinks so too.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage yes...but it got an extra 130k (about 2.5% of NZ total population) vaxxed so, lame idea that achieved a goal 🤷♂️
On goals, that's a ✔ in the "done" column though...
I wouldn't really say it was 130,000 extra. Last Saturday was 82,000, so it was more like 50,000 extra.
First doses were the most important outcome of it which were only 40,000. Compared with the daily rates for them of around 15-20K a day. So maybe 25,000 extra first doses. So good, but only an extra 0.6% towards 90%. The Maori rates were very good but still a long way to go still.
I think this and next weeks rates will show whether it was a success or not. We need to keep the momentum. If we drop back down to the rates before the vaccine certificates were announced, then it's hard to call it a success.
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@anonymous not how it is painted though...although last weekend was an increase on previous too wasn't it?
As I said above, I think there has been some providers pushing people out to yesterday to help the numbers but meh, if it inches us closer to the 90%...
That Michael Baker the epidemiologist that's has been on our TV screens practically every day for the past 18 months and preaching L4, vaccines, 100% etc only got his 2nd dose yesterday...
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think it’s a great success. Much like smoke free in nz. Here in Switzerland we are still sitting at about 60% to 65% and pretty much stuck at that level. And smoking is also still quite widespread. In saying that a vaxathon would be utterly derided here, it’s not at all the Swiss way of doing things.
I’m not far off writing to jacinda about the border I think the blocking of the country to overseas expats is a bit of a disgrace. I see taika watiti thinks so too.
They've already signalled a relaxing of the border, soon, as most cases are internal rather than inbound. Needs to be done.
For those that question the vaccine mandate for schools and health workers, in Italy you have to be double jabbed to work at all. The only other option is a negative test, every two days, at your expense
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@taniwharugby Yeah, last Saturday was around 30K more than the one before it. It was also the best Saturday before yesterday, beating the ones back near the start of lockdown which were both 78K. It would be interesting to know how much higher they would have been if they weren't supply constrained.
If they did push people to yesterday, that negates the whole point of the event. The number of doses given should have been a side effect of getting more people vaccinated that otherwise wouldn't. Lining up a whole lot of people for their second doses that would have happened either side of Saturday potentially made it less likely for someone to turn up for their first dose if they saw a bunch of people waiting.
Would have thought he would have been fully vaccinated at least a few weeks ago. Maybe that's why he was so keen for L4, so that he had had time to get his second dose. It'd be interesting to know the vaccination status of all of the other experts and also members of parliament.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Am I the only one who has found the whole super Saturday thing completely lame?
Comes across to me like some sort of a kids party where Cindy is the princess telling everybody how awesome her team of 5 million little troopers are.
Funny I kind of liked it.
Am still cynical especially given @taniwharugby 's comments about how they seemed to try and find ways to boost the numbers. Good politicians this mob.
And why has it taken so long to realise that a good way to encourage people to go out of their way to get a jab is to ... err ... encourage them. Give incentives.
WRT the argument about personal v communal responsibility doing the rounds above. I don't fully buy the argument that we as individuals have no responsibility to the wider community. If we can contribute to making society a safer happier, freer place we should.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Am I the only one who has found the whole super Saturday thing completely lame?
Comes across to me like some sort of a kids party where Cindy is the princess telling everybody how awesome her team of 5 million little troopers are.
I think Ashley Bloomfield dancing was the most cringeworthy part of all…..
BUT…..if it works and helps persuade a few dipshits sitting on the fence then I’m all for it. Then again I fully realise there’s absolutely no hope persuading some people.
On a personal note and being proudly double jabbed I’m really upset I missed the free KFC promo. I didn’t realise it only went for a day, If I’d have known I’d have visited Upper Hutt, Lower Hutt, Kent Terrace, Kilbirnie, Johnsonville, Porirua and Pram all in a row. ANYTHING free is a Sweet spot to a kiwi of Scots heritage.
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The only reason any of us really give a fuck if others get jabbed or not, if we're honest, is because the government has said they will not give us our lives back if we don't.
This isn't polio or even measles, it's the flue jab. No one gave a fuck about the flu jab.
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@mariner4life yep, exactly.
And not one person on here got the vaccine primarily for health benefits.
What a situation: take a widely distributed experimental vaccine because it saves you more from the government, than the actual pathogenic virus.
😄
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@siam not quite right for me.
It was a few months back when a few people in thier early 40s, fit and healthy died of Covid and made headlines that prompted me to go for it, despite having the annual flu vaccine only once in over 20 years.