Panama Papers
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="578383" data-time="1462790185">
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<p>Being legal doesn't make it ethical, moral or right. There are good reasons to set up foreign trusts, but I doubt that many of these NZ-based trusts with foreign settlors, beneficiaries and assets were set up solely for those good reasons. Also, it's a real risk to NZ's reputation, even if that risk is based on mistaken belief - sometimes, that matters more.</p>
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<p>I don't buy the idea that companies & people have a moral duty to pay more tax than they need to. People have a moral duty not to torrent, shoplift, speed, double park, let their dog shit on the beach, drop their cigarette butts etc do they? do they fuck.</p>
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<p>The global taxation system is abysmally broken, 99% of the people & companies people bitch about are 100% compliant with legislation, and most of the legislation is drawn up not to efficently collect tax, but because its written by lobbying groups, and our polititians are too incompetent or fiscally incentivised to care. Nothing pisses me off more than some life long polititian bleating about a company that is paying 100% of the tax the law requires them to. When is the last time one of them went "Well, Google don't pay much tax, but that becuae the tax laws that we drafted are terrible & I was swayed by a tax lawyer hired by the XXXX lobby who took me out for dinner & helped get my kid into an exclusive golf club, and frankly I'm too fucking stupid to understand it anyway."</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="578390" data-time="1462791647">
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<p>I don't buy the idea that companies & people have a moral duty to pay more tax than they need to. People have a moral duty not to torrent, shoplift, speed, double park, let their dog shit on the beach, drop their cigarette butts etc do they? do they fuck.</p>
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<p>The global taxation system is abysmally broken, 99% of the people & companies people bitch about are 100% compliant with legislation, and most of the legislation is drawn up not to efficently collect tax, but because its written by lobbying groups, and our polititians are too incompetent or fiscally incentivised to care. Nothing pisses me off more than some life long polititian bleating about a company that is paying 100% of the tax the law requires them to. When is the last time one of them went "Well, Google don't pay much tax, but that becuae the tax laws that we drafted are terrible & I was swayed by a tax lawyer hired by the XXXX lobby who took me out for dinner & helped get my kid into an exclusive golf club, and frankly I'm too fucking stupid to understand it anyway."</p>
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<p>Also who decides if they are ethical moral or right?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="578397" data-time="1462792622">
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<p>Also who decides if they are ethical moral or right?</p>
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<p>Parliament, as directed by voters - rightly or wrongly. And, I agree that Parliament is at fault for the legislation - we wouldn't get the tax either way from the income from the trusts as they simply wouldn't be domiciled here.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="578401" data-time="1462793794">
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<p>Parliament, as directed by voters - rightly or wrongly. And, I agree that Parliament is at fault for the legislation - we wouldn't get the tax either way from the income from the trusts as they simply wouldn't be domiciled here.</p>
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<p>Nope. Parliament , as directed by the voters, will determine the law.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="578403" data-time="1462794442"><p>
Nope. Parliament , as directed by the voters, will determine the law.</p></blockquote>
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Yep, good luck getting them to decide what's moral, ethical or right. -
Andrew Little is a twat..his typical MO is to have a cry about what John Key does and talk shit...how is this guy the best Labour have?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="578417" data-time="1462820471"><p>
Andrew Little is a twat..his typical MO is to have a cry about what John Key does and talk shit...how is this guy the best Labour have?</p></blockquote>
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Yes he is. Twat can't even win his own seat. Yesterday he was trying to explain how pink batts work, he made s cock of himself as it was obvious he didn't really understand it. -
This is weak stuff, it makes a change from tossing the Green party's salad as the dompost editor is very prone to doing.<br><br>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79801447/Editorial-Fiddling-as-we-lose-our-good-name-over-Panama-Papers'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79801447/Editorial-Fiddling-as-we-lose-our-good-name-over-Panama-Papers</a> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="578419" data-time="1462823462"><p>
This is weak stuff, it makes a change from tossing the Green party's salad as the dompost editor is very prone to doing.<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79801447/Editorial-Fiddling-as-we-lose-our-good-name-over-Panama-Papers">http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79801447/Editorial-Fiddling-as-we-lose-our-good-name-over-Panama-Papers</a></p></blockquote>
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"Do we really want to be mentioned in the same breath as Luxembourg, Monaco and Switzerland..."<br><br>
Wouldn't have thought that's a bad thing myself. -
<p>Since when did Labour, Greens , Hager and tame leftie journalists like Vance care about NZ businesses trying to do business overseas?</p>
<p>if they care sooooo much about helping NZ business do business overseas... why are they trying to squash the TPPA?</p>
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<p>All this bullshit about our reputation being damaged over this is just a lie, I would like to see one single example of that being quantifiably the case.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="578383" data-time="1462790185">
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<p> Also, it's a real risk to NZ's reputation, even if that risk is based on mistaken belief - sometimes, that matters more.</p>
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<p>What reputation, Godder? The financial world considers NZ to be an open, honest, transparent and stable country which offers little to no systemic risk to investments made there. That's about where it ends I'm afraid.</p>
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<p>The commentators would have us believe that our good reputation as a financial centre is at risk, when we don't really have one, good or bad. We're apparently supposed to believe that important people all over the world are thinking about us constantly. They don't.</p>
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<p>Vance and Hager want us to believe that the revelations that they have uncovered through the Panama Papers is causing everyone else to look at us in a new light, when they don't actually look at us in much of a light at all. We're minnows - nice ones, but hardly important.</p>
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<p>Investors will continue to invest where they think it makes most sense. In the past NZ's combination of relatively high interest rates and political and economic stability made it an attractive place to park idle cash, or for carry trading, but not any more. We have little significance in the financial world except for what we can provide in the way of services. Our timezone is very awkward for supporting any actual trading or anything volatile, but we can support things like trusts which once created need little or no real time maintenance. Or we can throw the baby out with the bathwater.</p>
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<p>Once again we have a crowd of people who's instinct is to ban stuff, not make stuff or do stuff. They say they want to fix the trust industry, but their version of fixing is to change it in such a way that it is no longer fit for purpose. Which of course is the real goal, because capitalism is the enemy.</p> -
Apart from the mildly amusing story about the elvis impersonator this is looking like a bit of a damp squib . Hagars smears only seem to work if you want to believe them , leftards like the loseratti on the standard lap this shit up. Even Chris Trotter and Julie Ann Genter admitted this is a storm in s teacup.<br><br>
Our media really are in a sad way and there were stories last night about the herald and stuff merging which isn't going to help. On the plus side they probably only need one of either Ratturd and Reason . -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="578421" data-time="1462824276"><p>
"Do we really want to be mentioned in the same breath as Luxembourg, Monaco and Switzerland..."<br><br>
Wouldn't have thought that's a bad thing myself.</p></blockquote>
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Which countries do leftards want us to be mentioned in the same breath as ? Greece and Venezuala? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="578440" data-time="1462833185">
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<p>Apart from the mildly amusing story about the elvis impersonator this is looking like a bit of a damp squib . Hagars smears only seem to work if you want to believe them , leftards like the loseratti on the standard lap this shit up. Even Chris Trotter and Julie Ann Genter admitted this is a storm in s teacup.<br><br>
Our media really are in a sad way and there were stories last night about the herald and stuff merging which isn't going to help. On the plus side they probably only <em><strong>need</strong></em> one of either Ratturd and Reason .</p>
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<p>?</p> -
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/79814716/Panama-Papers-Green-Party-donor-listed-in-offshore-leaks'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/79814716/Panama-Papers-Green-Party-donor-listed-in-offshore-leaks</a><br><br>
Awkward -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="578534" data-time="1462856315">
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/79814716/Panama-Papers-Green-Party-donor-listed-in-offshore-leaks'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/79814716/Panama-Papers-Green-Party-donor-listed-in-offshore-leaks</a><br><br>
Awkward</p>
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<p>Yet another reason why Shaw is a retard...</p>
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<p>"It's not whether someone's got a foreign trust, it's whether they're doing anything illegitimate such as tax avoidance, money laundering of anything like that," he said.</p>
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<p>Since when is tax avoidance illegitimate ?</p> -
<p>Now Greenpeace have been named in the as using the trusts </p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/121744'>https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/121744</a></p>
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<p><img src="http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif" alt="facepalm.gif"></p> -
<p>am sure they had legit reasons for using one unlike anyone that put thier money in a NZ trust.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="578538" data-time="1462858237">
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<p>Yet another reason why Shaw is a retard...</p>
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<p>"It's not whether someone's got a foreign trust, it's whether they're doing anything illegitimate such as tax avoidance, money laundering of anything like that," he said.</p>
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<p><em><strong>Since when is tax avoidance illegitimate ?</strong></em></p>
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<p>That pisses me off so much in the press - when they whine about tax <strong>avoidance</strong>. Every company on the actively & agressively tries to avoid tax. Its completely legal and will get you in zero trouble. </p>
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<p>Anyone reporting that is either an idiot who doesn't know the difference between evasion & avoidance, or more probably, working on the idea that their audience doesn't.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="578614" data-time="1462871024">
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<p>That pisses me off so much in the press - when they whine about tax <strong>avoidance</strong>. Every company on the actively & agressively tries to avoid tax. Its completely legal and will get you in zero trouble. </p>
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<p>Anyone reporting that is either an idiot who doesn't know the difference between evasion & avoidance, or more probably, working on the idea that their audience doesn't.</p>
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<p>It was the co leader of the Green party... so reassuring when someone who is supposedly the 'face of business' for the Greens doesnt have basic knowledge.</p>