Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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man if you look at some of the game stats (which are a bit dubious to say the least - like the defenders beaten ones for us) we should have won this game
28 tackles by Kremer from 31 attempted, Montoya with 2nd highest in the team with 16, and none missed
https://www.espn.com.au/rugby/playerstats?gameId=592925&league=289274
Just shows we did absolutely nothing with the ball we had.
Instead we just kept running into the wall expecting it to break.
This is where we needed Cane to step and say look, we need to do this instead, or BB to say he guys I can see we need to set our pods wider, or SMith to say look I can see we need to get over them cos we aint gettign through them...instead we stubbornly kept trying to break them down.
McCaw struggled in his early years as captain, I think Cane could be a very good captain too, but we need our senior players to step up and react to the situation, rather than seemingly keep banging away blindly
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As an aside, I'd like to know what the Argie number 5 was penalised for when knocked the ball from Aaron Smith's hands.
I heard the ref telling him he was ok in the maul, so why penalise him?
And if he was penalised for deliberately disrupting the hb, how is that different from barrets yellow card?
Big decisions being refereed differently is a problem.
Similarly what happened to "player safety" when ALB got HIA'd and Nugget got walloped?
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@Siam said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
As an aside, I'd like to know what the Argie number 5 was penalised for when knocked the ball from Aaron Smith's hands.
I heard the ref telling him he was ok in the maul, so why penalise him?
And if he was penalised for deliberately disrupting the hb, how is that different from barrets yellow card?
Barrett got a yellow card because he was off his feet, illegally positioned at a ruck, being a fuckwit.
The Argie 5 got a penalty because he was ON his feet, LEGALLY positioned at a maul, being a fuckwit.Both got penalised for knocking the ball with no attempt to rip or possess it. Effectively it is a deliberate knockdown but generally against the spirit of the game.
But the Laws give referees discretion to determine what is a professional foul or not. Barrett's met that definition because he decided to double down on stupid.
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@Siam all depends on the guy with the whistle.
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@taniwharugby and the replay guy, it would appear😉
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@Siam to a lesser extent I think so, but largely on the ref, I mean the douche moment by Coles, most refs would tell him to pull his head in, but AG said that was a 'slap' and reversed the pen...
Man in the middle calls them as he sees them (even if he sees them wrong
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@Siam said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA ok, I can understand that. So you need to be committing numerous offences to warrant a card.
Let's see how that plays out...
Not necessarily.
The first thing to remember is that rugby has Laws. Not Rules. Not Strictures. Not Gospel.
Laws have interpretation. That means in different situations you're going to have different outcomes, because ultimately rugby is a fluid game and you're going to get differences in refereeing depending on the flow of the game.
If Argie #5 did exactly the same thing BUT the ABs were 2 metres out from the goal line on a rampage with their maul, he probably gets yellow carded. I believe I commented at the time in this thread I thought it was "yellow, surely" but AFG didn't see it that way.
Remember that the guy with the whistle is generally the closest to the action. He's out there breathing every minute of the contest so he's making these interpretations run on the fly.
I would like some consistency around using the TMO but that has its own pitfalls and you can*'t* please all the fans all the time.
I love complaining about referees not penalising the ABs enough, but I like to think I've backed off on that since refereeing a game. In fact I think all rugby fans should do a shortened version of their local Union's refereeing course. Might help calm everyone down.
OK, not everyone, but some...
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@PecoTrain said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@akan004 said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that only Cane and Whitelock would currently be selected in a combined AB/Bok pack. Whitelock may not even make it tbh.
That unfortunately is the reality of where our forwards are atm. We simply aren't world class up front anymore.Who would you take Cane over in the Bok pack?
Kolisi.
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@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@taniwharugby said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@chimoaus not like these issues are new to 2020 though are they
Nope Chicago had a very similar feel to it.
Chicago was the first game of a tour of what was nearly a home game with the amount of support the Irish had, so rustiness, a yellow card and a slight ambush played there parts. While it hurt, the Irish team was very strong at the time and Schmidt was a very good coach and the Irish had a lot of motivation.
In game 5, after last weeks loss, with no cards, with Cheika as part of the coaching staff and against a team that was ranked outside the top 5 (10th at the moment but they are better than that) in the world with arguably our first choice players? That's a much bigger issue.
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It seems that our magic number is still 26. We get there we normally win (and would have yesterday). Simplistic, but does hold some water.
Not many teams beat our defence to get past that score (Aus / Perth, Boks a couple of times last few years, but only just and we won one of them).
Our lack of imagination to break down defences is killing us. We can't get to that number. They all know how to stifle us and it works.
We managed >26 twice this year and won. Stats and damn lies I know, but our attack (and limiting it to counter attack and broken play) won't cut it anymore, other teams have it too sorted, we just can't score. More of a kicking game early to create doubt maybe, but at least try and kick into space. Execution is poor at the moment.
Yes, scoring more points than the opposition wins you games, but the point is our "attack" isn't there. We have the players but no idea how to use them to maximise the skills.
We can't go down the "kick for territory and kick penalties" route to win either because we give away too many ourselves (mostly through stupidity (Coles, S Barret, et al).
We really do need a Wayne Smith or maybe Tony Brown, as others have mentioned, as well as a head coach that inspires confidence not incompetence.
That's my venting over (and I don't feel any better for it either).
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@taniwharugby said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Siam to a lesser extent I think so, but largely on the ref, I mean the douche moment by Coles, most refs would tell him to pull his head in, but AG said that was a 'slap' and reversed the pen...
Man in the middle calls them as he sees them (even if he sees them wrong
)Don't forget that AG had already told Matera that his team should not respond to AB provocation and that he would take care of it - I'm not sure there is much to complain about with that decision even if it was a little soft. The ref said he would do smething and he did.
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@PecoTrain said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Chicago was the first game of a tour of what was nearly a home game with the amount of support the Irish had, so rustiness, a yellow card and a slight ambush played there parts.
Some stupidity in there as well. A seriously narrow field (we knew that), close stands, mean no quick throw ins and every kick goes to a lineout.
Who were our locks? We were limited for choice but that was a screw up.
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@PecoTrain I wasnt complaining about it...although I think Gardner chose to ignore plenty of Argies with arms around our necks at rucks/mauls, particularly in that first quarter, but when they got the ascendancy physically they just went to normal niggle.
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@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@raznomore said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
The scrum got eaten yesterday. This is something we have been extremely strong in for a number of years now. So why have we suddenly gone backwards? I’m a fucken winger so can a prop explain it to me please. Redbeard was always good for that.
I think its down to your second row inconsistency. When you've got BBBR or Thorn pushing it is a markedly different prospect to Whitelock (who is no slouch) and almost anyone else available ATM. Throw in Whitelock having a couple of up and down performances, and swapping combinations through selection.
Our lineout is consistently the best or in and around the best, year in year out. But not last night.
It wasn't great last week either. Camped on the Wallaby line at the end of the first half and then got picked off. Again: consistency.
Don’t know what you think, but seems to me that some locks are better on TH — BBBR, Romano, Thorn, Kruis, etc. and others LH — Whitelock, Barrett and Itoje. So ABs have Whitelock at TH, which isn’t his best side and Patty T, which despite being very powerful never seems to transfer it to scrum time. Add in a couple of novice props and one hooker who isn’t known for his scrummaging and you’ve got a fairly so so set up.
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@Bones said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Argentina on the other hand have had months of build up for this one game, to beat a team they have never beaten and a clear game plan to train for.
Wait, Argies don't have family? If I was an AB I'd be training to beat a team we'd never lost to.
The interesting thing with all this COVID hubs/bubbles or whatever you want to call it for teams away from home ,
In the AFL and nrl , teams that won the comp had been away from home for months and even the warriors seemed to form a brotherhood bond that won them respect , it almost seems some sides were able to tap into something and use it to their advantage when they hit the field even if there was some homesick stuff going on off the field .
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@taniwharugby said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Siam to a lesser extent I think so, but largely on the ref, I mean the douche moment by Coles, most refs would tell him to pull his head in, but AG said that was a 'slap' and reversed the pen...
Man in the middle calls them as he sees them (even if he sees them wrong
)I suspect Coles was probably doing a lot of other niggly stuff prior to that and AG had probably thought enough is enough.
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