Coronavirus - China
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
It will be interesting to look back at all of this when the next big pandemic or disease sweeps the globe. How many countries will have learned lessons and made serious changes to prepare?
if it takes too long for the next one, the departments will be eroded as funds are transferred elsewhere...
-
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - China:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
It will be interesting to look back at all of this when the next big pandemic or disease sweeps the globe. How many countries will have learned lessons and made serious changes to prepare?
if it takes too long for the next one, the departments will be eroded as funds are transferred elsewhere...
.... and as people, forget enthusiasm wanes for such measures. And politicians don't see any political gain out of continuing it
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback your definition of murder is slightly different from mine I think.... Their actions, in acting slowly and not raising the alarm fast enough, along with the incompetence and resistance of lower level officials to pass on word that something was wrong all point to a heavily flawed response that cost many of their own citizens their lives, and countless others globally. But I don't see any systemic desire to cause people harm. Doesn't make any of it right of course
You seem to be persisting in blaming mid level officials, that is just nonsense. I would love to know on what you are basing that. The reality is that officials did raise it, and they disappeared. There is zero blame on mid level officials and complete ad utter blame on the communist party hierarchy.
-
@chimoaus said in Coronavirus - China:
Even if China had raised the alarm earlier would anyone have listened? Plenty of cases of countries who dismissed it even though it was clear what was happening.
Of course they would have. And it wasnt clear what was happening for bloody ages.... because China made it so.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
@chimoaus said in Coronavirus - China:
Even if China had raised the alarm earlier would anyone have listened? Plenty of cases of countries who dismissed it even though it was clear what was happening.
The Chinese government informed the WHO that something going on in Wuhan in late December 2019
Taiwan contacted the Chinese government within two weeks and asked China to allow their observers in. The Chinese government granted their sworn enemies access, and while China did not give them absolute full disclosure they allowed them more than enough access for the Taiwanese to recognize the threat and act accordingly. Their action plan has been as good as anyone's.
So what was everyone else doing for 3 months? They told the world and no one did anything about it. If you want to paint their hands with the blood of thousands why not add those who govern Italy, Spain, the USA and all the rest?
Are you joking??? The access they gave was strictly regulated and controlled, basically a token effort. It was nowhere near enough for Taiwan to recognise the threat, in mid Jan the WHI was still saying it was not transferred person to person. The action plan form the is not known as they have covered everything up. But if you actually know that their action plan was.. you would be the only one outside the communist party that did,
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.
The US govt knew much more than what WHO was telling them, as did many countries. This is what intelligence networks and analysts do. The problem is when those they report to choose to downplay or ignore the threat assessments.
I believe there was a briefing in January raising high risk. A clear indication to start checking that crisis plans are in place. -
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.
The US govt knew much more than what WHO was telling them, as did many countries. This is what intelligence networks and analysts do. The problem is when those they report to choose to downplay or ignore the threat assessments.
I believe there was a briefing in January raising high risk. A clear indication to start checking that crisis plans are in place.We didn't act early either, only a small handful did - mostly in Asia.
-
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.
The US govt knew much more than what WHO was telling them, as did many countries. This is what intelligence networks and analysts do. The problem is when those they report to choose to downplay or ignore the threat assessments.
I believe there was a briefing in January raising high risk. A clear indication to start checking that crisis plans are in place.Read the above article. Nobody downplayed it or ignored it. Indeed the US govt blocked travel from Chna early and got called racists for it.
It is amazing how victim blaming is ok when the victim is the US and the perpetrator is China. -
-
-
We did act early. You don't think that the very scenarios and actions we kicked in weren't being modelled and discussed some time back in case they were needed?
Yes, there were actions from the US and those crying 'racism' were uninformed or stupid. It was hardly a widespread outcry.
Where I refer to downplaying or ignoring advice I am referring to an attitude from the top that it wasn't going to be a big problem. The US hardly kicked into gear and started background planning and mobilisation. The article you quote also concedes that they haven't handled things well.As for China being dodgy? Quelle surprise. That is always taken into account when assessing official info from China.
-
I increasingly suspect that if the full extent of the contagion of Covid-19 been known outside of China,in early January, things might have moved much more quickly everywhere.
Interesting that China was busy buying medical supplies internationally in that time frame (e.g. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/revealed-china-stockpiled-2-billion-face-masks-and-25m-medical-items/news-story/5304e5a5080bd4087e4a9be9de210b97)
China saw a “rapid growth in imports of commodities and key consumer goods” comprising 2.46 billion medical supply items.
These included masks, gloves, hand sanitiser, hazmat suits, ventilators and other materials.
The National Customs in China inspected the billions of items between January 24 and February 29, according to the report.
-
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - China:
I increasingly suspect that if the full extent of the contagion of Covid-19 been known outside of China,in early January, things might have moved much more quickly everywhere.
Interesting that China was busy buying medical supplies internationally in that time frame (e.g. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/revealed-china-stockpiled-2-billion-face-masks-and-25m-medical-items/news-story/5304e5a5080bd4087e4a9be9de210b97)
China saw a “rapid growth in imports of commodities and key consumer goods” comprising 2.46 billion medical supply items.
These included masks, gloves, hand sanitiser, hazmat suits, ventilators and other materials.
The National Customs in China inspected the billions of items between January 24 and February 29, according to the report.
A huge amount of those were from the US... But NZ also sent some. For a producer of ppe to be importing it back is telling.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
15th January FFS....
Around the final week of January I talked to a good friend who is a specialist who works at Middlemore. He was shitting himself by then, had stories about how they were having to lock all their PPE up to stop people helping themselves because it was like a badly kept secret. He also told me of lots of other tidbits from within the medical community that they knew things were gone wrong in China. I'd like to think the government knew at least some of this intel and were well into preparations by then