TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98)
-
@MN5 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
How are these other guys as scrummagers compared to Franks who is still arguably the worlds best in this facet along with that Irish fella.
Pakman ratings (at test level):
Franks A+/A
Laulala A/A-
Ofa B+/B
Ta'avao BAround the field Ofa/Angus/Nepo/Owen.
Comes down to priorities/mix.
-
@Billy-Webb said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spat
Yes, SA Rugby Magazine has been pushing this one hard on Twitter. Of course, they don't show the end-on footage where it shows him clearly in the field of play (still close to being out, but there's clear slither of green between his boot and the white sideline).
-
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
Chiefs tried him there, which allowed Nepo as TH but not a success. Height not a help.
-
@pakman said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@MN5 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
How are these other guys as scrummagers compared to Franks who is still arguably the worlds best in this facet along with that Irish fella.
Pakman ratings (at test level):
Franks A+/A
Laulala A/A-
Ofa B+/B
Ta'avao BAround the field Ofa/Angus/Nepo/Owen.
Comes down to priorities/mix.
Interesting. I'd have Ta'avao on top around the field. Absolute work horse and shows well ball in hand. Conversely I don't think Laulala is as bad around the field as it seems to be given here - certainly prone to getting flat footed and beaten in the tackle, but IMO a rather fine ball carrier.
-
@pakman said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Chiefs tried him there, which allowed Nepo as TH but not a success. Height not a help.
Out of necessity because all of the Chiefs LHs were injured at that time (Ross, Moli, Hames, O'Neill). It makes you appreciate AB props who could/can play both sides equally well and there haven't been many of those. Loe was the best in the professional era. Dowd, Meeuws, B Franks were OK but not great. Ofa is still learning and the Arg scrum is poor. He will be the only prop of the 5 selected for the RWC who can be a LH/TH.
I'm sure Franks would be shit at LH.
-
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Interesting. I'd have Ta'avao on top around the field. Absolute work horse and shows well ball in hand.
I agree. Angus has very good hands for a prop while Ofa can have the dropsies.
-
-
@akan004 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Have never rated Ofa. It's a shame that Moli had that serious injury last year which ruled him out for the whole year. He could be the ball carrying prop that we desperately need but I suspect this year is a year too early for him.
Yeah Moli is a bit scary - you can see the shudder when blokes tackle him, solid mofo.
-
Around the field Ofa/Angus/Nepo/Owen.
Comes down to priorities/mix.
Interesting. I'd have Ta'avao on top around the field. Absolute work horse and shows well ball in hand. Conversely I don't think Laulala is as bad around the field as it seems to be given here - certainly prone to getting flat footed and beaten in the tackle, but IMO a rather fine ball carrier.
For me Ta'avao and Tu'ungafasi are both very good around the field, and seem ideal for bench role. Nepo is fair, and may get better. Owen has no second gear, but seems effective in maul, and has historically been excellent on clean out.
Another important area is lifting, Hayman being the gold standard. Not something I've looked at for but you can be sure TWM have.
-
@Bovidae said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@pakman said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Chiefs tried him there, which allowed Nepo as TH but not a success. Height not a help.
Out of necessity because all of the Chiefs LHs were injured at that time (Ross, Moli, Hames, O'Neill). It makes you appreciate AB props who could/can play both sides equally well and there haven't been many of those. Loe was the best in the professional era. Dowd, Meeuws, B Franks were OK but not great. Ofa is still learning and the Arg scrum is poor. He will be the only prop of the 5 selected for the RWC who can be a LH/TH.
I'm sure Franks would be shit at LH.
Steve McDowell was very handy on both sides! Karl T is one of the few LHs I can imagine would be OK on TH.
-
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@akan004 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Have never rated Ofa. It's a shame that Moli had that serious injury last year which ruled him out for the whole year. He could be the ball carrying prop that we desperately need but I suspect this year is a year too early for him.
Yeah Moli is a bit scary - you can see the shudder when blokes tackle him, solid mofo.
Good around field, excellent poacher. Seems to be doing OK after switching from TH. Expect it's him or Karl when the cut is made tomorrow.
-
@pakman said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Another important area is lifting, Hayman being the gold standard. Not something I've looked at for but you can be sure TWM have.
Tu'ungafasi and Ta'avao are 1.95 m and 1.94 m, so that must help with lifting. Big units.
-
@Billy-Webb said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spatNo he wasn't.
You're right about the Twitter whinge fest though.
I've just watch the game for the first time.
Are the Saffas whinging about Barrett's little nudge forward asking for absolution about Jantjes's feed to the scrum 3 minutes earlier?
No?
-
God all this talk about bloody props, Red Beard would be loving this if he was still around.
-
@No-Quarter said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
God all this talk about bloody props, Red Beard would be loving this if he was still around.
Props. Good.
-
Ok. Have eventually watched the game.
Not watching for detail, just watched like I'd normally do, just knowing the result beforehand.
Thoughts:
- Me tired. Me piddly. But ...
- I'd rather be the All Blacks than the Bokke after that game on the weekend.
- Bokke sent their A team and scrambled a draw. And were really really lucky to scramble a draw.
- Yeah that's about it.
- Watching without the the impediment of worrying about the result the ABs were far better than the Bokke. All the Jaaps had was hoping they'd stay in touch . Which OK they did this time. But is "trying not to lose" a better tactic than "trying to win"? I think they got lucky on Saturday, I just don't think they realise it.
Some further some thoughts:
- Reiko needs to sharpen up
- SBW is our best 12 ( unpopular opinion maybe ... but the way he attracts defence is unique. Am a massive ALB fanboi, but if you shut down the SBW hate there is a real something about him that is quite exciting).
- Todd is the third best 7
- I like the Bo'unga combination
- Reiko needs to sharpen up (did i say that?)
- Hemopo is a better option than Fifita
- Pretty much most options, Jacobsen, Papalii, Hemopo, Frizell, are better than Fifita
- ASmith is our best 9
- TTT is better than Weber. Selectors are pandering to popular opinion given Weber's "obviousness'.
Still think we take more away from that game than they do.
-
@booboo maybe.
But then again, the boks now seem to have a very solid defensive structure in place. Probably it will not be this effective against the ABs in September (largely because it is hard to imagine the ABs being quite as rusty as they were on Saturday.) but the boks will be confident they can contain the ABs to a total they can hope to match.
And they have developed a bench/squad that is competitive rather than a huge drop off. So if the game is in the balance at the death, they will feel they are as capable as the ABs of landing the telling blow.
What was noticeable in the 2nd half was the stress the ABs put the boks under when they upped the pace and got multiple phases going. So fitness is still a relative strength for the ABs. Steyn in particular looked well off the pace.
But you’d have to back Rassie and co to sort that out over the next 50 odd days.You are right that the boks lacked any real attacking edge. That will need to change, because the recent history between these two teams suggests that less than 30 points is rarely going to be enough to win.
Lastly, the boks need to sort their lineout out. It is particularly frustrating as a bok fan how little pressure we put on opposing line outs, because we literally have three locks on the field.
Sort that out and the bok maul becomes an attacking platform again and they improve their time in possession which will help with defence and fatigue.
-
But then again, the boks now seem to have a very solid defensive structure in place. Probably it will not be this effective against the ABs in September (largely because it is hard to imagine the ABs being quite as rusty as they were on Saturday.) but the boks will be confident they can contain the ABs to a total they can hope to match.
Analysis: How South Africa's defence has improved
Our analyst Sam Larner returns to Planet Rugby and this week he heaps praise on the Springboks' superb defence in the Rugby Championship.
-
loving the large number of posts i have seen on Instagram in the last couple of days about Barrett's sneaky little move.
I am just amazed no one has ever thought about doing that before...
