Chiefs v Highlanders
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@bones said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
DMac is erratic and prone to disastrous errors.
In an ideal world he would never get close to a regular test gig. And yet he's looking like a certain bench option. Jesus.
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Perofeta is coming. If he stays injury free he’s an ideal 10/15 who’s probably already a better 10. He needs plenty of work, but I think he miiiight be ready by next year.
Having said that, Barrett will probably bugger off after the WC, so we’ll be looking at Mo’unga, Perofeta, and Dmac. Falcon has a bit of Cruden about him, but he’s miles away, and none of them are anywhere near DC level who was quality on the international stage at 21! Lions 2005, he was only 23...
Fuck I miss him.
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Pardon me if i don't put faith in a blues player being our saviour
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@bones said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
DMac is erratic and prone to disastrous errors.
In an ideal world he would never get close to a regular test gig. And yet he's looking like a certain bench option. Jesus.
I think on balance DMac does more good than bad and TBH, we all forget (well some of us don't) that BB was an erratic 10 for a number of years but was an AB for all the other stuff he brought to the team.
I think DMac's errors get focused on a lot more than some of his contemporaries liek Jordie Barrett. I can't remember whether it was last week or the week before where Jordie had an awesome first half and then a really awful second half yet the DMac style derision wasn't heaped on him.
I guess it is up to the selectors to decide whether his good outweighs the bad and if they're happy to go with a 10 on the bench or a utility like DMac. We might see both DMac and Jordie on the bench together.
Edit: In saying that it would be nice if DMac could bring his eror rate down as the season progresses.
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I'm sure DMac has been criticised but his performance was more good than bad. I'm expecting plenty of teething problems as he learns to play 1st 5 at this level on the job. The Highlanders were obviously targetting his channel but he held up well on defence.
I'm glad I am not the only one criticising Weber. Again, his passing was erratic with two passes bouncing to DMac, and others high to their intended man.
Wainui still looks like a converted centre to me. I thought he was very good on attack but his positional play on defence was lacking. You don't see it on the TV footage but in one stoppage of play Strawbridge talks to both Wainui and Alaimalo about what they should be doing.
All in all, it was a good NZ derby that went down to the wire. The Chiefs can be happy they had a dominant scrum with their 3rd rated LH and 4th rated TH prop playing.
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@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
Hahahaha.
Agree on BB, his rugby playing makes up for his test match 10 deficiencies (I fear a Canes hit squad will be hunting us down imminently)
I'm ok with DMac and Jordie, think they're both young - obviously they don't hold a candle to Reiko who is easily the best young player in NZ at the moment.
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Completely agree with B. Barrett. He really can't control a game unless he plays the other side out of it by just being awesome. I would easily take Carter every day for his nous. Beauden doesn't make a lot of errors like D Mac does - he just takes bad options (like kicking the ball at the wrong time).
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
Jordies performances against the Lions for the ABs (MOTM) and Canes got everyone super excited. He appears well suited to test footy. DMac on the other hand has looked out of his depth against far lesser opposition. Those two players are not in the same league right now.
Beauden is an interesting one - his game is not that well suited to test footy, particularly at 10, but he's so fucking good he generally makes up for it with moments of brilliance. He and DC are not in the same league though, DC was IMO the GOAT first five in the world. We're unlikely to see another 10 of his quality in our lifetimes.
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@no-quarter said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
Jordies performances against the Lions for the ABs (MOTM) and Canes got everyone super excited. He appears well suited to test footy. DMac on the other hand has looked out of his depth against far lesser opposition. Those two players are not in the same league right now.
Beauden is an interesting one - his game is not that well suited to test footy, particularly at 10, but he's so fucking good he generally makes up for it with moments of brilliance. He and DC are not in the same league though, DC was IMO the GOAT first five in the world. We're unlikely to see another 10 of his quality in our lifetimes.
I always find this a curious statement (unless you're close to your expiry date). The next "DC quality" first-five may already be playing in a school U15 team somewhere, but just needing some more years to develop and grow. And some players just develop later or more slowly. How can you tell that a Mo'unga, Perofeta or Falcon (or a Plummer, McClutchie etc) can't become a DC quality player in a few years from now? Odd. Players also don't need to be DC clones or have an identical playing style to reach that quality.
I also rate BB higher than some other posters on the Fern, apparently ...
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@stargazer said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@no-quarter said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
Jordies performances against the Lions for the ABs (MOTM) and Canes got everyone super excited. He appears well suited to test footy. DMac on the other hand has looked out of his depth against far lesser opposition. Those two players are not in the same league right now.
Beauden is an interesting one - his game is not that well suited to test footy, particularly at 10, but he's so fucking good he generally makes up for it with moments of brilliance. He and DC are not in the same league though, DC was IMO the GOAT first five in the world. We're unlikely to see another 10 of his quality in our lifetimes.
I always find this a curious statement (unless you're close to your expiry date). The next "DC quality" first-five may already be playing in a school U15 team somewhere, but just needing some more years to develop and grow. And some players just develop later or more slowly. How can you tell that a Mo'unga, Perofeta or Falcon (or a Plummer, McClutchie etc) can't become a DC quality player in a few years from now? Odd. Players also don't need to be DC clones or have an identical playing style to reach that quality.
I also rate BB higher than some other posters on the Fern, apparently ...
Except they sort of do. Dan Carter was a complete player. Generalship, passing, field kicking, goal kicking, speed, defence etc. Any player like Beauden who is great but has glaring weaknesses are always going to be talked about like Mehrtens. "Mehrtens was a great player but....." and we all know what the but is....How good would Barrett have to be as an attacking player to be regarded as better than Carter? How good would Wilkinson's general play had to have been, to be regarded as better than Carter?
The only way to beat Carter is to do everything he did as well as he did and never have a form slump/injuries (as Carter did post 2011). Or else to somehow combine the best of Barrett and Wilkinson. It's possible but I doubt I will ever see it.
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@no-quarter said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
Jordies performances against the Lions for the ABs (MOTM) and Canes got everyone super excited. He appears well suited to test footy. DMac on the other hand has looked out of his depth against far lesser opposition. Those two players are not in the same league right now.
Beauden is an interesting one - his game is not that well suited to test footy, particularly at 10, but he's so fucking good he generally makes up for it with moments of brilliance. He and DC are not in the same league though, DC was IMO the GOAT first five in the world. We're unlikely to see another 10 of his quality in our lifetimes.
While I agree with most of this post, I think it's a bit premature to rate Jordie as the second coming on one test against the Lions (where we drew). Lets see how he goes at test level after a year (which we would have seen last year if he didn't get injured) and then judge.
@Stargazer Carter was a breed apart (and you know I wouldn't say that lightly about a Cantab!) - he was the most complete 10 we've ever have and by far the best 10 we've ever had. None of those 10s you mention have shown yet that they are going to reach (let alone surpass) Carter levels. In fact none of them really look like they'll reach Cruden in his prime (although I hope they do for the ABs going forward).
Of course, it would be awesome if someone better than Carter came along (as long as they play for us!)
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@stargazer because Carter was Carter from day 1. Players of that quality aren't made. In my 30-odd years of watching he's the best, most complete I've seen. The Dan and Richie double act was a fucking blessing.
And then he went on to dominate his last test 13 years later. Jesus what a player.
Those guys you name aren't in the same city, let alone ballpark. I miss Dan.
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@Nepia yeah, agree re: Jordie. Was just musing about why he's so highly rated - those performances got us all pretty excited at the time!
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@nepia said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
I think on balance DMac does more good than bad and TBH, we all forget (well some of us don't) that BB was an erratic 10 for a number of years but was an AB for all the other stuff he brought to the team.
True he grew into the role, but what he brought to the ABs was quite different; it wasn't a catalogue of disastrous decisions, rather a well earned nickname of goldenballs. His injections had the Midas touch.
@bovidae said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
I'm glad I am not the only one criticising Weber. Again, his passing was erratic with two passes bouncing to DMac, and others high to their intended man.
An inability to pass well should prevent a scrumhalf from playing at this level.
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@antipodean said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
An inability to pass well should prevent a scrumhalf from playing at this level.
Have you seen TJP's passing at times?
I can forgive some poor passes if you bring something else to the table. In Weber's case, his strength is his running but we haven't seen much of that yet.
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@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
@nepia fair bit of truth there, but then i think BB is an ordinary test match 10 (but a great rugby player if that makes sense). I also think JB is the most overrated player in NZ, probably the most overrated in a while.
My opinion is also influenced by the fact i find Dmac incredibly irritating, I'm just not a fan.
I just don't see a composed test player in there anywhere.
After watching JB against the Highlanders and the Rebels, I can understand why he is so highly rated.
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The game is ever evolving, so I fully expect to see a first five better than Danny boy, before I shuffle off the mortal coil. Hopefully, he will be a Crusader.
I quite like DMac. I'm not sure he'll ever be a great first five, but he's got some stuff that very few others have in terms of elusiveness with ball in hand and he's brave as hell. That being said, Beaudy starts and Mo'unga sits on the bench if I'm choosing.
You've all been spoiled by Danny. Beauden is already in our top five ever first fives and has plenty of chance to get better. I can't recall anyone with that scintillating pace and most of the rest of his game is perfectly adequate.
We can go forward confidently with Beauden, Mo'unga, Dmac, Goodhue, Reiko, Jordie and Dmac in our backline, and people like Will Jordan coming through.
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@chris-b said in Chiefs v Highlanders:
The game is ever evolving, so I fully expect to see a first five better than Danny boy, before I shuffle off the mortal coil. Hopefully, he will be a Crusader.
I quite like DMac. I'm not sure he'll ever be a great first five, but he's got some stuff that very few others have in terms of elusiveness with ball in hand and he's brave as hell. That being said, Beaudy starts and Mo'unga sits on the bench if I'm choosing.
You've all been spoiled by Danny. Beauden is already in our top five ever first fives and has plenty of chance to get better. I can't recall anyone with that scintillating pace and most of the rest of his game is perfectly adequate.
We can go forward confidently with Beauden, Mo'unga, Dmac, Goodhue, Reiko, Jordie and Dmac in our backline, and people like Will Jordan coming through.
It depends how you rate players. If you took prime Colin Meads and put him in the All Blacks now, he would look out of place. I still consider him as one of the greatest of all time though.
The athleticism may continue to evolve to an extent that a prime Carter would struggle more but those future generations would just be lucky they had improved conditioning and coaching.
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@hydro11 Yeah - just everyone is getting better.
If you picked the "best ever" AB team, rather than the greatest, there wouldn't be anyone who didn't play in the past 20 years - simply on size alone.
Almost everyone would have played in the past 10 years.
