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@canefan
well, and horribly off topic, but allow me a wee high five to my in-laws country who gave them a sneaky kick in the balls with this little piece of Robin Hoodism:It doesn't mention that there was a photo with her majesty sporting a similar looking gem on a necklace one day...but that's unproven speculation
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@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
So fellas, and forgive my slowness - confirmation bias is a disease ;), can we conclude that the Saudis (and Qataris) are balls deep in this
terrorismcowardly murdering way of conquering, perhaps even in a method of shoring up power and influence for a post oil-reliant world, and that dufus with the orange hair's only notable achievement thus far is sell them more murder weapons?Apologies for the slow uptake (perhaps other ferners might benefit from my simplicity), but are those Wahabis (read Saudis and Qataris) a similar threat as nazis, communists were?
Except the west falls over backwards to accomodate them?
It shows what a cluster fuck the Middle East. Who do you support? The Sunnis and their lovely Wahhabi ways or the Shiite with the terror sponsoring shitshow that is Iran. I guess the Sunni kingdoms don't actually wish death on you, so perhaps they are the lesser of the two evils?
Fuck me that entire region is so utterly absurd.
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@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Not all of Indonesia has been a shining light. Aceh's always been pretty hardcore. Political repression might have helped foster that, although one of the concessions later granted was greater scope for Sharia law, so make of that what you will.
Spot on, Aceh is a tricky on in that its a bit like the Tamil tigers in Sri Lanka, they want (and were promised) independance. But they have a shit ton of oil. So no one is giving them shit.
But, the fact is they've always been much more religious than the rest of Indonesia.
But unlike the Saudis they aren't trying to spread their shit around the world
If they actually had control over their oil, I'd imagine they'd give it a red hot go. Regardless, the point was that not all of Indonesia has been "good" Islam.
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@Frank said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Relax, he just a soccer fan. Could have been anyone. Just the boy next door.
Nothing to do with IslamIs that what that report actually says? Cause nowhere I've seen has said he wasn't a muslim doing it for ISIS.
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This post is deleted!
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
So fellas, and forgive my slowness - confirmation bias is a disease ;), can we conclude that the Saudis (and Qataris) are balls deep in this
terrorismcowardly murdering way of conquering, perhaps even in a method of shoring up power and influence for a post oil-reliant world, and that dufus with the orange hair's only notable achievement thus far is sell them more murder weapons?Apologies for the slow uptake (perhaps other ferners might benefit from my simplicity), but are those Wahabis (read Saudis and Qataris) a similar threat as nazis, communists were?
Except the west falls over backwards to accomodate them?
It shows what a cluster fuck the Middle East. Who do you support? The Sunnis and their lovely Wahhabi ways or the Shiite with the terror sponsoring shitshow that is Iran. I guess the Sunni kingdoms don't actually wish death on you, so perhaps they are the lesser of the two evils?
Fuck me that entire region is so utterly absurd.
Serious question, is Iran actually that bad anymore? It's been a while since the threats of Ahmadinejad. Or is it that they line up on the wrong side?
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This post is deleted!
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@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Serious question, is Iran actually that bad anymore? It's been a while since the threats of Ahmadinejad
The Iranians are douchebags. But localised douche bags. And they are (slowly) going the right way. IE they have democatic(ish) elections. They have a huge westernised - pro-western middle class who are more or less secular. When presented with liberal poltitians they overwhelmingly vote as liberal as they can (in contrast to say Egypt who would vote Muslim Brotherhood if they could).
You walk round north Tehran its almost indistinguishable from Chelsea.
They support groups that we regard as terroirists and who are pretty much islamo-facsists. BUT with aims that are single territory or cause - guys not disimilar to Tito's partisans, the IRA or the French Resistance in goal (not method). IE Hamas are islamo-asholes, but they are fighting to get a Palestinian state. Hezbollah ditto, for Lebanon, The Houthis in Yemen. In all cases if they weren't fighting our allies we'd be on board same way we were when Russia occupied Afghanistan.
So from my point of view the Iranian regime are islamic douche bags, but their country has HUGE upside & is moving secular. Where they support "terrorists" they support terrorists I at least understand. And they don't really export jihad, certainly not to the West. Where their guys operate its only really in countries where a large Shia group are under attack (eg Yemen is 40% Shia). Thats all pretty unstandable. IE Iran is not trying to convert Indo or Kenyan to an islamic state where women can't drive.
The other player there is Saudi & Qatar. Saudi is probably the most represive regime in the region. Zero progress, almost no future prospects - they have no middle class, they are HUGELY islamic. Their best case is represive islamic kingdom. Worst case is huge civil war where very extreme islamists (basically ISIS) win. Re the terrorists they support, take your pick. Al Quaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Al Nusra Front. All of them trace their ideology - and usually money & founding, directly to those states (Qatar are just as bad). All are militant Sunni's (Iran is Shia). Their goal is to spread Wahabbi Islam everywhere. Literally everywhere.
Ironically the country that has most consistently fought AQ & ISIS in the Middle East in the last 10 years is Iran.
It's not really good guy v bad guy. Its shithead, who has upside & hates ISIS & AQ, v death cult who is actively against everything we (the West) stand for.
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@gollum said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Serious question, is Iran actually that bad anymore? It's been a while since the threats of Ahmadinejad
The Iranians are douchebags. But localised douche bags. And they are (slowly) going the right way. IE they have democatic(ish) elections. They have a huge westernised - pro-western middle class who are more or less secular. When presented with liberal poltitians they overwhelmingly vote as liberal as they can (in contrast to say Egypt who would vote Muslim Brotherhood if they could).
You walk round north Tehran its almost indistinguishable from Chelsea.
They support groups that we regard as terroirists and who are pretty much islamo-facsists. BUT with aims that are single territory or cause - guys not disimilar to Tito's partisans, the IRA or the French Resistance in goal (not method). IE Hamas are islamo-asholes, but they are fighting to get a Palestinian state. Hezbollah ditto, for Lebanon, The Houthis in Yemen. In all cases if they weren't fighting our allies we'd be on board same way we were when Russia occupied Afghanistan.
So from my point of view the Iranian regime are islamic douche bags, but their country has HUGE upside & is moving secular. Where they support "terrorists" they support terrorists I at least understand. And they don't really export jihad, certainly not to the West. Where their guys operate its only really in countries where a large Shia group are under attack (eg Yemen is 40% Shia). Thats all pretty unstandable. IE Iran is not trying to convert Indo or Kenyan to an islamic state where women can't drive.
The other player there is Saudi & Qatar. Saudi is probably the most represive regime in the region. Zero progress, almost no future prospects - they have no middle class, they are HUGELY islamic. Their best case is represive islamic kingdom. Worst case is huge civil war where very extreme islamists (basically ISIS) win. Re the terrorists they support, take your pick. Al Quaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Al Nusra Front. All of them trace their ideology - and usually money & founding, directly to those states (Qatar are just as bad). All are militant Sunni's (Iran is Shia). Their goal is to spread Wahabbi Islam everywhere. Literally everywhere.
Ironically the country that has most consistently fought AQ & ISIS in the Middle East in the last 10 years is Iran.
It's not really good guy v bad guy. Its shithead, who has upside & hates ISIS & AQ, v death cult who is actively against everything we (the West) stand for.
So the enemy of my enemy is......? If you removed the country names from that I'm thinking Iran could be worked with. Lebanon, given years of peace is quite moderate by accounts. Yet we go and back the strongmen religious fanatics spreading their disease like a cancer. Iran has shitloads of oil. If it's about oil, let them back into the international fold, fuck Saudi and Qatar
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@booboo said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum who posts anything from Alex Jones on here except to point and laugh?
Especially now, he has said under oath its all an act hes a paid troll and he admitted it. I think if you bought into any of his act you would be feeling a bit silly now. Kind of like how we all felt when we found out wrestling isn't real.
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@Crucial said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
I think she should have bigger things to be 'irritated' about.
Why? Unless I have it wrong the name etc was leaked before the Brits were able to conduct and complete raids on associates. Operationally that was a dumb thing to do.
Now coming out -
The Associated Press confirmed earlier reports on US TV news channels that US officials had named the suspect as Salman Abedi, 22, before either Greater Manchester Police or Downing Street had confirmed it.
The reports led to concerns that the leaks could have potentially jeopardised the ongoing investigations into the attack. The US media reported the information before police made their first arrest, and while they were still conducting raids on houses in Manchester. It is not clear which branch of the US government the leaks came from — NBC's report cited only "two U.S. officials briefed by British counterparts" late last night and this morning.
The Prime Minister's spokesperson was asked during a press briefing this afternoon whether Downing Street was concerned that information passed to the US had apparently been leaked without their consent by US officials.
Thats fucking massive. An intelligence leak that may have given a head start to a terrorist ring to escape / destroy info. If it comes out it was leaked purely for PR purposes (intentionally) rather than an accident thats astonishingly bad
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@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Siam said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
So fellas, and forgive my slowness - confirmation bias is a disease ;), can we conclude that the Saudis (and Qataris) are balls deep in this
terrorismcowardly murdering way of conquering, perhaps even in a method of shoring up power and influence for a post oil-reliant world, and that dufus with the orange hair's only notable achievement thus far is sell them more murder weapons?Apologies for the slow uptake (perhaps other ferners might benefit from my simplicity), but are those Wahabis (read Saudis and Qataris) a similar threat as nazis, communists were?
Except the west falls over backwards to accomodate them?
It shows what a cluster fuck the Middle East. Who do you support? The Sunnis and their lovely Wahhabi ways or the Shiite with the terror sponsoring shitshow that is Iran. I guess the Sunni kingdoms don't actually wish death on you, so perhaps they are the lesser of the two evils?
Fuck me that entire region is so utterly absurd.
Serious question, is Iran actually that bad anymore? It's been a while since the threats of Ahmadinejad. Or is it that they line up on the wrong side?
Neither Armadinnerjacket nor the current guy actually rule Iran. The Mullas do. The crackdowns a few years ago clearly drove than home. They're also actively seeking to acquire nuclear weapons. Not a desirable combination.
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Bomber's father and brothers arrested.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11862744
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@Frank said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum
Whooosh!!!To be fair Frank, you probably whooshed half the people on here, so for the avoidance of doubt, what were you actually trying to get across?
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@Tim said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
Bomber's father and brothers arrested.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11862744
So the bomber scumbag was probably not skilled enough to make the bomb so he was not alone. And if this isn't false news the whole family are shitbags. Which means the Imam was lying about the dad being anti-ISIS. And the mosque is in an area recognized as a hotbed for extremism. Someone isn't telling the truth
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@Catogrande said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Frank said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@gollum
Whooosh!!!To be fair Frank, you probably whooshed half the people on here, so for the avoidance of doubt, what were you actually trying to get across?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
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@canefan no doubt we'll see more and more of that approach too. "What? My family are radicals? nah mate, we are totes anti ISIS and all about peaceful co-existence" "Son, pass the ball bearings".
Fuck those guys. This wolf in sheep's clothing approach is one of the truly horrid aspects of this shit. It's totally fine to be lying and deceiving infidels to advance the goals of Islam - where that sort of framework essentially treats non-Muslims (or non-your flavour of Islam) as inhuman or unworthy. So anything goes to get closer to their idea of what the world should look like - which was pretty much the perspective shared in the mosul link.
Manchester Arena Explosion